Re: Recent rhetoric

Ami Chopine (
Thu, 1 Apr 1999 13:00:31 -0800

Cummins wrote:
> Do you hope to find salvation with those hell-bound fascist game-players.

Questions of an individuals salvation are:

a)discouraged by the Bible (Matthew 7:1, et al)
b)not a topic of this list
c)Are not evidence in support of any argument

> If they would only make honest attempts to debate, I wouldn't have all
> invitations to register my utter and complete disgust.

I have seen both honest and ad hominim in reply to Cummins. With respect to
the ad hominim, it has been uneccessary and proven little. I again refer to
such biblical references as cited above.

Ad hominim has its purpose when demonstrating that the individual setting up
an argument is either incompetent or untrustworthy, so as to cast doubt on
the validity of the argument. This is useful to determine if the evidence
must be evaluated further to determine if it is real, interpreted correctly,
cited in context, etc. But only useful...for if it can be shown that the
argument is well founded and everything in order, then the incompetence or
untrustworthy character of the individual is mute, if indeed, true.

Other than this, ad hominim, as I understand it, and has been mentioned by
others, is a weak defense showing lack of ability or desire of the person
offering counter argument to examine the points given. Much of the whole
peppered moth fiasco, on both sides, was a disaster in looking past the
evidence to the ulterior motives of the 'enemy'.

As to claiming that the lack of honest attempts at debate invokes one to
personal attacks and questioning their integrity, faithfulness to God,
Bible, Christ, or all that is good, moral character, etc etc... That is akin
to saying 'The devil made me do it'. We may not be responsible for
temptations, but surely we are responsible for how we react to those
temptations. Also folks, we are responsible for the enviroments which cause

Listen, I am just an ignorant housewife. I have a couple of years of
biology under my belt. I also do not think that my continued formal
education of a few hundred hours to get my doctorate sometime in the future
is going to alleviate my ignorance much, especially since many of those
hours will be spent studying erroneous conclusions. If there is a delay in
my replies, I cannot say anything scholarly like I've been off to
conferences, or working on papers, etc. (No, I've recently been wiping
snotty noses and getting thrown up on. ) I have been corrected on this list
by Tim Ikeda, and Kevin O'Brien..I think by Pim too. I am most grateful to
have my errors corrected. I am in the pursuit of truth. Pride is not an

Is there a moderated list anywhere on evolution and theism?


Ami Chopine