RE: Where's the Evolution?

Cummins (
Wed, 31 Mar 1999 23:36:34 -0600

> []On Behalf Of Rich Daniel

> Of course the best example of nature creating complexity is
> evolution itself.

No, that's a bad example because you're not using an empirical example,
you're using your own interpretation of circumstantial evidence as an

> You seem to be asking for an example of nature creating large amounts of
> complexity very quickly, but that's a strawman. There are 3 billion bases
> in the human genome, and only about 5% of them code for proteins. This
> complexity evolved over 4 billion years, which means it took nature about
> 27 years per base on the average.

Scientists have worked with thousands of generations of fruitflies under
circumstances of increased mutation and selection rates without creating a
more complex creature. And, when I say that the concept of increasing
complexity is foreign to nature, that isn't limited to biological evolution.
You're free to provide an example in a non-living system. I would be
satisfied even with a computer simulation that provided an indefinite
increase in complexity. In a very short time you could simulate millions of
generations of mutation and selection. However, all such efforts have been
completely failures.

> Now I can understand if you want to say that the process has not been
> demonstrated, but you're making a much stronger statement. You're saying
> that "empirical science squarely demonstrates" that evolution is wrong.
> I don't see how you can possibly support that statement.

Sandcastles don't form on beaches because of wave action. We don't observe
species increasing in complexity. Etc.

> But scientists do not claim that evolution will result in an indefinite
> increase in complexity. And even if it were so, how could you possibly
> demonstrate it? The correct question is, "Can the proposed mechanisms
> of evolution account for the amount of complexity that we see today?"
> And so far, we haven't seen any reason why they can't.

Unless you believe there is a definite limit to how complex life can become,
you believe that complexity can increase indefinitely. And, the proposed
mechanisms of evolution have never been shown to increase the complexity of
organisms. Species, over time, are observed to become less complex (or even