Re: Two questions, help pleas

Glenn R. Morton (
Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:43:38 -0500

At 01:13 PM 6/2/98 -0500, David E Hurst wrote:
>> Second question. Last week I posted a note on Death before the Fall. Did
>> anyone see it? I expected somebody not to like it but no one responded.
>Well, if you're going to start begging for comments, Glenn, I guess I
>can give you my two cents. :-)

Actually, I was curious if it had even gotten out. A geologist transferred
to our office is a YEC. He was the first one that alerted me to the depth
of their belief in this. Then when I got the letter from the well-known
YEC, I figured I needed to hit this area.
>I did not know that YEC's believed so strongly that there was no death
>before the fall. I disagree with that idea, but not because of the
>reasons you write of.
>I disagree with that idea because, when God says in Genesis 2:17, "for in
>the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die," I do not believe
>He is speaking of a physical death. If God was speaking of a physical
>death, then as soon as Eve had taken a bite, she would have died right
>then and there. But she didn't. She kept right on living. So did Adam.
>I don't buy the arguement that what God MEANT to say was, "for in the day
>that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely BEGIN TO die." If that was
>what He had meant, then that is what He would have said.
>I think God meant a spiritual death. This spiritual death separated Adam
>and Eve, and thus all mankind, from God.
>Remember what Paul said in Romans 5:17, "For if, by the trespass of the
>one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who
>receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness
>reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." When Paul speaks of
>"life", he is not speaking of a physical "life"; even those who are saved
>still go through a physical death. When Paul speaks of "life" here
>he is referring to our salvation, our spiritual life. Thus, when Paul
>speaks of "death", I think he is also not speaking of a physical "death".
>When Jesus speaks to Nicodemus in John 3, and Nicodemus asks Jesus how can
>we be born again, Jesus tells Nicodemus (vv5-6), " one can enter the
>kingdom of God unless he is born of wather and the Spirit. Flesh gives
>birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." Nicodemus, in my
>mind, makes the same mistake -- an honest mistake, but a mistake
>nonetheless -- that YEC's make, in assuming that when God and Jesus speak
>of "life", "death" and "birth" that He is speaking in literal physical
>terms. He isn't. He is speaking spiritually.
>Let me reiterate, though, that this is just my opinion. I may be wrong,
>and if I am, I can accept that, no problem.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you here. My note was attempting to
address the young-earth concerns.

>So, I personally agree with you, Glenn, in that death probably existed
>before the fall; just not for the reasons you gave. Good enough?

I appreciate this.

Adam, Apes and Anthropology
Foundation, Fall and Flood
& lots of creation/evolution information