Re: Two questions, help pleas

David E Hurst (
Tue, 2 Jun 1998 13:13:21 -0500 (CDT)

> Second question. Last week I posted a note on Death before the Fall. Did
> anyone see it? I expected somebody not to like it but no one responded.

Well, if you're going to start begging for comments, Glenn, I guess I
can give you my two cents. :-)

I did not know that YEC's believed so strongly that there was no death
before the fall. I disagree with that idea, but not because of the
reasons you write of.

I disagree with that idea because, when God says in Genesis 2:17, "for in
the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die," I do not believe
He is speaking of a physical death. If God was speaking of a physical
death, then as soon as Eve had taken a bite, she would have died right
then and there. But she didn't. She kept right on living. So did Adam.

I don't buy the arguement that what God MEANT to say was, "for in the day
that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely BEGIN TO die." If that was
what He had meant, then that is what He would have said.

I think God meant a spiritual death. This spiritual death separated Adam
and Eve, and thus all mankind, from God.

Remember what Paul said in Romans 5:17, "For if, by the trespass of the
one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who
receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness
reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." When Paul speaks of
"life", he is not speaking of a physical "life"; even those who are saved
still go through a physical death. When Paul speaks of "life" here
he is referring to our salvation, our spiritual life. Thus, when Paul
speaks of "death", I think he is also not speaking of a physical "death".

When Jesus speaks to Nicodemus in John 3, and Nicodemus asks Jesus how can
we be born again, Jesus tells Nicodemus (vv5-6), " one can enter the
kingdom of God unless he is born of wather and the Spirit. Flesh gives
birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit." Nicodemus, in my
mind, makes the same mistake -- an honest mistake, but a mistake
nonetheless -- that YEC's make, in assuming that when God and Jesus speak
of "life", "death" and "birth" that He is speaking in literal physical
terms. He isn't. He is speaking spiritually.

Let me reiterate, though, that this is just my opinion. I may be wrong,
and if I am, I can accept that, no problem.

Let me also clarify one other point: some say that if Adam and Eve had not
sinned, that they physically would have lived for ever. That may be true.
I am not precluding that possibility. If they had not eaten the
"apple", perhaps Adam and Eve would have lived forever. Or perhaps they
would have lived just as long as they did after the Fall, about 930
years (Genesis 5:5). Who knows? All I'm saying is that physical
immortality is not what the Fall was all about.

So, I personally agree with you, Glenn, in that death probably existed
before the fall; just not for the reasons you gave. Good enough?

Erich Hurst
Houston, TX