Re: Chance infufficient? (was Re: Bill Dembski)

Glenn Morton (
Thu, 13 Mar 1997 22:07:35 -0600

At 05:07 PM 3/13/97, Rich Knopp wrote:

>Glen, thanks for your reply. However, the ID theorists are not living on a
>different (primative) planet and unaware of such cases. Initially, your
>system appears to undermine the "classical, creationist" claims.
> But there has to be a whole lot more to this than simply citing such
>an example. Based on your own description, it looks like you've developed a
>system that has 100% probability of producing whatever you want; it just
>takes a little time. Yet this apparently amazing feat clearly exposes one
>of the main weaknesses of this type of response: what you had already
>"programed" into the system eventually (maybe even necessarily) produced a
>specified result. I don't know why this should be so shocking (or decisive)
>to anyone, much less an ID theorist.

It should be shocking, because I didn't program anything into this system.
As I mentioned, I discovered the system when I made a programming mutation
to Sierpinski's gasket. I then decided to see if shapes could be selected
for. God made the mathematics of the iterative system I was using, not me.
While I thank you for thinking that I have god-like powers over this
program, in reality, I don't. The shapes I found are contained within the
system but are not programmed. If you can mathematically describe some shape
I have not selected for, I would be willing to see if a genome exists for
that shape. I would let you have the code and you could program it
yourself, if you know Pascal.

The point I am trying to make is that such a system has an internal "design"
which arises from the mathematics and not from a human being. Who made this
'design'? God did. I view such non-linear systems as God-designed systems.
ID theorists seem to think that God only designs linear systems, but that
is far from the truth. Take a look at

and then select Michael Taylor's fractals and then select the name at the
top of the list. (this site is down right now) You will find lots of fractal


These fractals are God designed and are based upon iterative systems. DNA
systems are iterative, nonlinear and God designed. They produce living
forms of a variety of morphologies like my system produces screen critters
of various morphologies.

> I am interested in knowing, however, whether your system has some
>"built in memory." That is, does it necessarily produce a DIFFERENT
>mutation (from any before) each time, or does it "randomly" select a
>mutation from ALL possibilities each time?

The program does not remember the past series of genomes. It takes the
present 'genome' and mutates it from among ALL possible mutations that are
available to the present genome. If the screen form produced is closer to
the desired shape than the previous genome, the new genome becomes the
reproducing genome. This is measured by the mathematical technique of
correlation. If the mutation creates a shape farther from the desired shape,
then it dies and the old genome is mutated, randomly a second time. It is
entirely possible for the genome to be mutated in one direction and then the
mutation reversed.

This would constitute another
>significant variable.



Foundation, Fall and Flood