Re: [asa] Friend of the ASA?

From: Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com>
Date: Mon Dec 14 2009 - 19:46:46 EST

Hi Moorad,

Okay, I'm late, but I think this is an excellent point. Over the many
years, I have noticed that most atheists posture from a position of
certainty - as if they somehow know Christian faith is pure bunk and
nonsense. If they have indeed arrived at this sense of certainty, then they
are, in the end, irrational. For a truly rational man knows certainty is
beyond his reach. If they have doubts about their own atheism, then why are
they reluctant to air them?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexanian, Moorad" <alexanian@uncw.edu>
To: "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com>;
"AmericanScientificAffiliation" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Friend of the ASA?

> Bernie, I admire honesty and detest deceitfulness. Whatever you believe
> in, you must have doubts. There is no certainty in this world not even in
> axiomatic systems. Therefore, the usefulness of this list is to answer
> your doubts in honest exchange. That is what learning is, to answer your
> own doubts. Of course, sometimes you may add to the doubts that some of
> us have as Christians. However, in most instances you serve to strengthen
> our faith.
> Moorad
> ________________________________
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of
> Dehler, Bernie [bernie.dehler@intel.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 3:54 PM
> To: AmericanScientificAffiliation
> Subject: RE: [asa] Friend of the ASA?
>
> Ted said:
> “In our opinion, Bernie, this constitutes an aggressive advocacy of
> atheism which is not part of the mission of this list. If you do not stop
> these kind of comments immediately and permanently, we’ll put you on
> read-only. “
> So next time Moorad or somebody asks me what I think, instead of honestly
> and bluntly telling them, I have to say “sorry, that’s not allowed on this
> list.” Is that correct? Because that’s what happened, if you look at the
> context. It was a short email answering his questions.
> …Bernie
> ________________________________
> From: Ted Davis [mailto:TDavis@messiah.edu]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 12:49 PM
> To: AmericanScientificAffiliation; Dehler, Bernie
> Subject: RE: [asa] Friend of the ASA?
>
> Bernie,
>
> In our opinion, some of the comments below are not consistent with the
> purpose of a list sponsored by the ASA. I am not talking about the
> expression of opinions--ASA rarely gets involved with endorsing specific
> opinions on most matters related to science and Christian faith. I am
> talking about the agenda you are interested in advancing, which does not
> reflect the attitude(s) of an open-minded inquirer who wishes to be a
> "friend" of the ASA. I shouldn't have to pick out the specific statements
> (below) in which you do this.
>
> In our opinion, Bernie, this constitutes an aggressive advocacy of atheism
> which is not part of the mission of this list. If you do not stop these
> kind of comments immediately and permanently, we’ll put you on read-only.
>
> As for being a "friend" of ASA, I realize that the ASA has a formal
> category for people who want to receive PSCF but who are unable or
> unwilling to affirm our faith statement. I realize that is what you
> meant, and we aren't suggesting that you ought to be removed from that
> category if you continue to pay for a subscription. My reference to this
> above was meant to be ironic. I fail to see how a genuine "friend" of the
> ASA would want to "evangelize Christians to atheism." This list is
> absolutely not for any such purpose, and what you wish to say along those
> lines will have to be stated somewhere else.
>
> Ted (ASA president)
>
>>>> "Dehler, Bernie" <bernie.dehler@intel.com> 12/1/2009 3:17 PM >>>
> Ryan-
>
> One doesn't have to be a member (or friend) of the ASA to post on this
> discussion board. If I violated a posting rule, please cite the specific
> rule and my comment which violated it. That is in reference to your
> comments below. (I was already warned about the political comment and
> agreed to abide by that rule. I'm sorry I bad-mouthed Palin and people
> who think she's something significant in the political arena.)
>
> ...Bernie
> (Friend of the ASA)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of Ryan Rasmussen, P.E.
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:47 AM
> To: AmericanScientificAffiliation
> Subject: [asa] Friend of the ASA?
>
> Is it time to create a new membership category? "Friend of the ASA"
> doesn't seem to fit some of the thoughts presented here.
>
>
>
>
>
> "I have plans to write about that now, as well as how to evangelize
> Christians to atheism (de-programming)."
>
>
>
> "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord? Legend mostly."
>
>
>
> "I think Christ is a placebo."
>
>
>
> "I have extensive apologetics and evangelism training. I plan to use that
> for atheism."
>
>
>
> "So my new hobby will be atheistic evangelism (which I would do under the
> banner of secular humanism, which the focus on 'humanism')."
>
>
>
> "After dumping Christianity, and seeing life this way, the myth and
> superstitions of Scripture seem to jump out more vividly for me."
>
>
>
> "Thinking that we go from one extreme to another is a convenient way to
> write us off. Why don't you instead engage in content?" [Just had to add
> this one for the ironic value of it all.]
>
>
> "If you could answer concisely I'd appreciate it. I'm afraid of getting a
> rambling sermon in response from some people."
>
>
>
> "Faith healer dies at age 57 of cancer...
>
> http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2009/11/you-can-be-healed.html
>
> I wonder if he changed his mind about faith healing before he died... on
> his deathbed... or if he was waiting for his miracle all the way up to the
> bitter end..."
>
>
>
> "2 Corinthians 10:5 (alt. version for cowards)
> We avoid all arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against
> the knowledge of God, and we ignore every thought in order to be obedient
> to Christ."
>
>
> "I have no intention of trying to be an irritant, harping on some point
> over and over." [More irony.]
>
>
> "Sure, you can write it off as stupid (Christian) people interpreting the
> Bible incorrectly. But maybe there's some place for blaming God (if he
> exists) and Scripture for being so unclear?"
>
>
>
> "I think the simpleton approach, likely the Catholic approach, is to say
> that it is wrong to take one's life in all cases; no exceptions."
>
>
>
> "As I build my case against Christianity, those will be the two
> foundations, I think... because it strikes at the heart of Christianity
> (atonement and resurrection). The reason I'm building a case is because
> if I'm going to be an anti-Christ (but still a good person), I better have
> a good reason for it."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "I'm registered as a 'friend of the ASA.' If you want friends, you should
> treat them as such (respectfully)."
>
>
> "If you don't want to have a respectful discussion I wish you would just
> keep your thoughts to yourself. I don't need to hear your abuse."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Mon Dec 14 19:47:07 2009

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