RE: [asa] (asa) Re: Robot Minds

From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Date: Fri Dec 11 2009 - 12:05:26 EST

I guess turning on/off a human also happens during a heart transplant? There's a point where there's no heart, they install it, then shock it back to life.

Also there's an interesting frog that can freeze, its heart stops, then it can thaw and it's heart will start again. Weird. Was it dead when its heart was completely stopped?

Also consider 'what is death' and 'when does it happen.' For example, you can pick a growing banana. While it is growing, it cells are multiplying, and getting bigger. But as soon as you pick it, does it immediately die? I doubt it. Even though the life source is removed, the chemical processes are still working and slowly shutting down. Makes you wonder what happens with humans when they are immediately 'turned-off.' Maybe a slow shut-down with weird brain interactions.

Dave said:
" But reports of out of body experiences complicates the notion that brain activity is all there is."

I don't think you are really too serious about these reports, are you? Consider:

1. Christians have these experiences.
2. But so do people of other faiths.
3. Do they all accurately report what they see out of the body, or do you just believe the ones that sound like they may correlate with reality (selective data mining). Yes, we all await the new ongoing studies to see if they can scientifically confirm an out-of-the-body experience.

Dave said:
" Only if the robot has out of body experience can the human
experience and robotic activity be equated."

My point wasn't to say they are the same. My point is that they both have an immaterial mind which arises from the hardware. Nothing supernatural is needed. It seems to me that the supernatural is a superfluous addition to the mind hypothesis. What is it about the mind that requires a supernatural explanation? Freewill? I think freewill can be programmed into an artificial system. But you say "Not fair, because you have to program some initial variables." Same things with humans. Why do you think we have different personalities? Part of it is learned, and part chosen, but part of it we are born with and have no choice. From experience, having a few kids, I observe this.

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of dfsiemensjr
Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 12:36 PM
To: muzhogg@netspace.net.au
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] (asa) Re: Robot Minds

Turning the brain off is easy. Asphyxiation does it permanently.
Temporary inactivity of parts is effected by anesthesia. But reports of
out of body experiences complicates the notion that brain activity is all
there is. Only if the robot has out of body experience can the human
experience and robotic activity be equated.
Dave (ASA)

On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:03:38 +1100 Murray Hogg <muzhogg@netspace.net.au>
writes:
> I think, Bernie, when you demonstrate that human brains can be turned
> on and off so easily, that you might have an argument.
>
> Until then, you're actually demonstrating how very UNLIKE robot
> "intelligence" human consciousness actually is - mind is a very
> great deal more than what results when one provides power to a
> brain.
>
> Blessings,
> Murray
>
> > Christine said:
> > "Tehcnically, that's not true. In step #2 you're adding energy to
> the mechanical medium."
> >
> > Not if the robot has a battery pack. Nothing added physically.
> It is the same material before and after hitting "on."
> >
> > ...Bernie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu
> [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Christine Smith
> > Sent: Thursday, December 10, 2009 10:57 AM
> > To: asa@calvin.edu
> > Subject: [asa] (asa) Re: Robot Minds
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Bernie writes:
> > "Consider:
> > 1. A robot with power turned off.
> > 2. A robot with power on and doing his programmed dance.
> >
> > Physically, they are 100% the same. No parts were added or
> removed."
> >
> > Tehcnically, that's not true. In step #2 you're adding energy to
> the mechanical medium. Therefore, the two scenarios are not
> physically the same.
> >
> > In Christ,
> > Christine
> >
> >
> > "For we walk by faith, not by sight" ~II Corinthians 5:7
> >
> > Help save the life of a homeless animal--visit www.azrescue.org to
> find out how.
> >
> > Recycling a single aluminum can conserves enough energy to power
> your TV for 3 hours--Reduce, Reuse, Recycle! Learn more at
> www.cleanup.org
> >
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>
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Received on Fri Dec 11 12:05:39 2009

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