Re: [asa] Dawkins on the fossil record

From: Terry M. Gray <>
Date: Tue Dec 01 2009 - 17:19:38 EST


It's interesting that you find this so dramatic. But thank you for the commendation of bravery. This is what I have always said even in my most fervent defenses of biological evolution. That being said, I'm not sure that such a view is even inconsistent with polygenism (ala Derek Kidner).

But I find it odd that you're so universally critical of other believers on this point--the mere belief in a transcendent God or in the Incarnation or in the Holy Spirit or in innumerable other things that are at the core of the Christian faith make it impossible for a Christian to be a Naturalist in the sense that Richard Dawkins is a Naturalist. Hardly any of us here are in that camp at all--otherwise we wouldn't even be interested in the ASA. Of course Dawkins would call me names (although as he says in the preface of the book, "been there done that")--we disagree on the most fundamental issue.

You draw the lines in the strangest of places.


On Dec 1, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Gregory Arago wrote:

> Terry Gray wrote:
> "For example, my own view of human origins allows for common descent of our biological form, but I believe a special creative act is required for our full humanity in the image of God (say, in the creation of the human soul)."
> So, in this *moment* you ARE an anti-evolutionist or a non-evolutionist. You "believe a special creative act." Period.
> Dennis Venema does not accept this. (Or if he does, he hides it under his polygenist naturalism-scientism.)
> Naturalists who plead for continuity at *all* costs do not accept this.
> It is a brave thing for you as a scientist to say this Terry!
> Richard Dawkins would call you names for saying so.
> But then again, really, who is Richard Dawkins?!
> Gregory
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Terry M. Gray, Ph.D.
Computer Support Scientist
Chemistry Department
Colorado State University
Fort Collins, CO 80523
(o) 970-491-7003 (f) 970-491-1801

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Received on Tue Dec 1 17:20:09 2009

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