Re: [asa] red in tooth and claw

From: Dave Wallace <>
Date: Sun Nov 29 2009 - 12:11:38 EST
Gregory Arago wrote:<!-- DIV {margin:0px;} -->
The key issue is that human beings are not 'just natural,' but rather we are 'more than natural' as well.
Accepting for the moment your definitions of human and natural then YES!  although some on the list probably disagree.  The advantage of your definition is that the difference between humans and our nearest common ancestor is emphasized and the commonality is minimized.   Your position has the potential downside of denigrating the physical and animal in us, maybe somewhat Platonic.  Likely your position is more compatible and accepted by YEC, OEC and ID leaning people than by some EC/TEs.  I believe that you have indicated that your position is the one accepted in all the human or social sciences.  

The definition of nature on the list emphasizes the commonality and potentially minimizes the differences humans have as a special entity with an animal linage.  Those holding a EC/TE position where the image of God is something that evolved naturally would tend to accept the definition on the list and oppose your definition.  Of course there are some ECs who believe that God intervened and thus imparted the image which is the position I lean towards.  

In some ways I prefer your definition but since the definition used mostly on the list has a long history and custom and the fact that some would find your definition objectionable, I don't think that it is worth while to argue for your position.  To me at least it appears that you think the definition used in the HSS trumps that used in the natural physical sciences and any meta scientific/theological objections such as I alluded to above.  To me some battles are not worth fighting and when I sometimes forget and do try to fight, I hear the melody of "The Impossible Dream" playing quietly in the background.

Dave W 

ps The Impossible Dream comes from the musical Man of La Mancha which tells the story of Don Quixote.  One might crudely summarize the story as tiling at windmills. 
Tilting is jousting. 'Tilting at windmills' derives from Cervantes' Don Quixote - first published in 1604, under the title The Ingenious Knight of La Mancha. The novel recounts the exploits of would-be knight 'Don Quixote' and his loyal servant Sancho Panza who propose to fight injustice through chivalry.

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