Re: [asa] Does nature leads you to believe or to reject God?

From: dfsiemensjr <>
Date: Sat Nov 28 2009 - 18:17:03 EST

I have noted that anything we do not like is labeled evil. We need to
consider the situation in broader context. Imagine a world in which there
is no death. It would have to be static. Otherwise it would quickly be
packed solid. Predation is often bloody, something we find repellant. But
during the time of Teddy Roosevelt, if I recall correctly, predators were
removed from the north rim of the Grand Canyon. Before long, every bit of
foliage that the deer could reach was gone and all the deer were
starving. Is it better for a few deer, especially the ones that can no
longer outrun predators, to die quickly or for the entire herd to die
painfully? How can one design an earth without predation?

Imagine a world in which, when a carnivore became hungry, a herbivore of
appropriate size would suddenly drop nearby with a broken neck. Of
course, no nursing mother would be affected, so that young would not
suffer. Now devise a natural situation in which such a situation would
always hold. The notion that a good God would not have predators, that
"I" can design a better world, is foolish.
Dave (ASA)

On Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:02:23 -0800 (PST) Oscar Gonzalez
<> writes:
Hello Asaers.

I ask this question in this forum for this reason: I have started this
year my PhD studies in Ecology; and this topic appeared while I was
talking with my advisor. He is a well known ecologist with several years
of experience in the Neotropics. Mean while I was discussing my research
proposal, which is in the effects of climate change on birds, we swifted
to social causes of environmental degradation and he expressed his
interest in how religious communities impact the environment.

I told him how I worked with a faith-based institution in my country to
get christians towards nature conservation and the opennes that we found
in poor rural communities; also explained him what is the responsible
stewardship of creation and how to interpret the bible. He defined
himself as a atheist but not a "hard-core" hater of religion. He was
raised as a baptist, his parents are christian; but he lossed his faith
while studying nature and as he told me, understood how cruel, irrational
and senseless the interactions of animals are.

Then I felt free to share how I became a christian a year before I
entered the University when I was 16, to study my bachelor's degree as a
biologist. I did see Biology as the wonders of God's creation; also how I
became a young earth creationist (It was impossible to be an evangelical
christian and not be a creationist in the fundamentalist environmment
where I lived) and later a Theistic evolutionist.

The time for the interview reached an end, but he wants to talk more
about this, I know that he has a strong spiritual need.

I will not advocate intelligent design or something similar to convince
him that God is present in nature, I know that ID is not science. But if
he thinks that nature led him to reject God, what can I say? Any advice
of how to preach to your advisor?


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Received on Sat Nov 28 18:21:39 2009

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