Re: Of Martian Sculptures (was: Re: [asa] on science and meta-science)

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Sun Nov 15 2009 - 21:56:20 EST

> I don't know about the others but my TE position of course assumes
> frontloading, aka, embedded design. I don't see how TE differs from DE
> otherwise. I know we have had endless discussions about randomness according
> to our criteria still allowing design to a transcendental Designer but there
> is no point in conceding that. It seems possible to me that the various
> groups of control genes may have been programmed to be expressed at certain
> intervals and that in conjunction with the enviroment and other random
> factors yielded the desired trajectory.
> I believe the history of life was a combination of randomness, i.e.
> endosymbiosis, chromosome fusion, etc. and some intentional unfolding of
> embedded design that was predestined to yield the basic classification
> system we have today.

If one puts this idea together with the theological requirement that God
foreknew and fore-ordained our individual souls, then this theory of
biological front-loading fundamentally depends on some sort of theory of
supervenience. Even if the particles had the built-in information allowing
them to "unfold" in a timely manner in essentially what was a
deterministic process (production of the trajectory) , alongside this was
the co-evolution of the non-deterministic process of the mind and soul.
The point is the latter does not require causal closure in a material

What bothers me a bit about the front-loading theory is the lack of the
above mentioned theological requirement. That lack makes fron loading
theologically unacceptable to me.

However, that is not why I don't believe in front loading. I don't
understand how front loading itself can be supported by science. The idea
that meta-information was coded into the DNA of bacteria, and the existence
of and the eventual expression of this meta-information as a
non-meta-information? And this is the primary cause leading to the
construction of higher organisms? Well, its a stretch. Everything I know
of science says information devolves and entropy increases.

But, if someone can publish a scientific theory that shows how an almost
zero entropy was preserved over four billion years and produced various
local minimas of entropy that we see in life forms, well, I am willing to
try to maintain an open mind.

Think of it though...the idea that the information in the human genome
existed as meta-information within something that carried along with the
bacterial rather mind boggling.

I have another reason as to why these notions can be construed as being
anti-science, but I'll leave that for another day.

Meanwhile, I will retain my skepticism while someone perhaps points me to
scientific literature on this front loading idea.

Dave C

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Received on Sun Nov 15 21:56:38 2009

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