Re: [asa] ID/TE rapprochement (was: Re: What my tiny little brain was thinking... )

From: Ted Davis <>
Date: Sat Nov 14 2009 - 08:12:28 EST

I like Cameron's effort to define intellectual spaces with sufficient precision that the area of overlap between ID and TE becomes easier to identify. It's crucial in this context that the area include "macroevolution" or common descent, and he has that in there. I have often attached the term "antievolutionism" to ID, though I've always insisted that it isn't "creationism" pure and simple and I still insist on that. I believe the term "antievolutionism" is fair to attach to most forms of ID that dot the landscape; most ID advocates do deny "macroevolution," and that's the sense in which it's fair to call it "antievolutionism."

As for those who do accept "macroevolution," but who also insist that one can draw design inferences from nature (whether they are considered "scientific" or "philosophical"), sometimes this has been called "id" rather than "ID," if not always in a consistent and clear manner. Cameron's descriptions/definitions might help with this.

At UD, apparently, one draws considerable flack for endorsing "macroevolution" and one gets booted (as I did) if one believes that design inferences are philosophical rather than scientific in character. But, I fit into the ID box as Cameron defines it. And, I think he fits into the TE box as he defines it, though obviously I could be assuming too much.

The cultural spaces, however, are largely non-intersecting, and problems might still remain here--esp problems with getting folks to self-identify with the ID box, given that it also includes very large numbers of people who think that large parts of mainstream science are illegitimate. At the same time, the relatively few ID supporters who embrace macroevolution may be very reluctant to self-identify with TE, given the presence of large numbers of folks with non-Christian/non-Jewish views in that box. As I say, this is the cultural aspect, and it's quite real and influential. "Culture wars" rhetoric, which I try very hard not to engage in, colors this issue substantially. Politics (in the ordinary partisan sense) is also a big piece of this, since it's a big piece of culture wars. This is the minefield, and it's enormous.


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Received on Sat Nov 14 08:13:04 2009

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