RE: [asa] Dawkins new book - objective

From: Ryan Rasmussen, P.E. <Ryan.Rasmussen@pulte.com>
Date: Wed Oct 28 2009 - 15:07:16 EDT

Funny that you bring this up right as I am listening to Ravi Zacharias. Check out 'The Anatomy of Faith & The Quest for Reason' on his radio broadcast archives (about 15 min in).

He points out that for some, the world is so confusing that clarity is paramount. But, for others, philosophical issues are so complex that you better go the route of a subtle path "... For you shall search for Me, and find Me, when you shall search for me with all your heart." Most of his parables involved some mental gymnastics.

"Good Master, what must I do to obtain eternal life?" Jesus' response, "Why do you call me good?"

If your email allows for large (9MB) files to be transferred I can just send it to you. Just drop me a line and let me know.

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 2:40 PM
To: ASA
Subject: RE: [asa] Dawkins new book - objective

There are two positions I'm hearing:

1. Morals come from God.

2. Morals can be deduced without the need for God.

If #1 is true, it would seem reasonable to me that God would also provide a way to discover these morals. But on tricky issues (euthanasia and suicide on the battle field (King Saul's case), for example), there seems to be no absolute answer. Born-again Christians have different opinions. So it is apparent that if God does give morals, he gave no sure means for his followers to discover them... and I'm talking about the 'true believers' and not those 'Christian' in name only.

If #2 is true, then you'd expect different answers because people have different levels of maturity, emotional intelligence, and intellect.

If someone things that God's morals could be discovered clearly, it would be good to pick an example (like euthanasia or battle suicide), and work from the bottom-up to follow the train of thought. But I haven't seen anyone with the willingness to try that. And I think that George agrees that the moral answers can't be clearly discovered, based on his paper covering the euthanasia example, after all is considered, concluding that the final outcome is ultimately a personal decision.

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Murray Hogg
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:47 AM
To: ASA
Subject: Re: [asa] Dawkins new book - objective

And people read the Bible differently, so why should agreement amongst Christians be expected?

Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> "It just seems so worthless to say that morals are grounded in reason, then when atheists get together they can't agree on what the correct moral position is."
>
> That is because people reason differently, so why shouldn't it be expected???
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu]
> On Behalf Of Murray Hogg
> Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 8:21 AM
> To: ASA
> Subject: Re: [asa] Dawkins new book - objective
>
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
>> It just seems so worthless to say that morals are grounded in God, then when Godly people get together they can't agree on what the correct moral position is. Euthanasia was the last specific issue I talked to George about.
>>
>> ,,,Bernie
>
> To which the obvious response...
>
> It just seems so worthless to say that morals are grounded in reason, then when atheists get together they can't agree on what the correct moral position is.
>
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Received on Wed Oct 28 15:08:05 2009

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