Re: [asa] Dawkins new book

From: Kirk Bertsche <>
Date: Tue Oct 27 2009 - 14:04:33 EDT

There was an interesting theodicy debate in SF last year, featuring
N.T. Wright and Bart Ehrman ( Wright
had some interesting perspectives and comments. He pointed out that
an atheist has just as much (or more) philosophical problem with
"good" as a Christian has with "evil." Without God, why do we
classify anything as "good" and what do we mean by it? Where do we
get our concept of "good?" Why does "good" exist?

(I don't know if Wright's "Surprised by Hope" addresses this topic or


On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:27 AM, Dehler, Bernie wrote:

> There's an atheist book club meetup that I will likely join, and
> they are reviewing Dawkin's latest book "The Greatest Show on
> Earth." I glanced at the book the other day. I think most of it
> looks like evidence for evolution (what's new?), but I did notice
> an interesting section on theodicy. (And yes, it looked like it
> may be shallow in not bringing forth and quoting the best arguments
> from the critics.)
> Anyways, Dawkins mentioned that for believers, there's a thing
> called 'the problem of evil.' He says 'they even have a name for
> it- theodicy.' At first I thought that was kind of patronizing to
> say 'they even have a name for it' then as I thought about it more
> I realized that theodicy was something only that God believers have
> to deal with. I know that is obvious, but it wasn't that clear in
> my mind before, esp. from seeing it from the other side now (not as
> a Christian).
> Anyway, I suspect this book will make a stir in the area of pushing
> evolution on to the American people. The Christians will be forced
> to make a response, unless they want to put their head in the
> ground. And so it will be interesting to see what the best/biggest
> home brands (William Lane Craig and Ravi Z.) in Christianity put
> forth... are they going to testify or deny evolution? The Bible
> Answer man is anti-evolution.
> Here's my forecast because I'm seeing hints already. There will be
> a louder ID response that is straddling the fence with accepting
> evolution. It is really a God-guided TE. Just like Denis
> Lamoureux is TE but invented a new name (Evolutionary Creation,
> along with his new ideas of hermeneutics), this newer ID is TE but
> goes by the name of ID (this is Behe with his IR and 'edge of
> evolution' ideas).
> Summary:
> Category: TE
> Group 1: Aka: Evolutionary Creation
> Leader: Denis Lamoureux
> Distinctive: Science/History/Theology distinctions; hermeneutics
> for 'incidental' science and history in scripture
> Group 2: ID (there are also ID definitions; ID in itself is vague
> like TE is vague)
> Leader: Michael Behe
> Distinctive: God-guided evolution, Irreducible Complexity, edge of
> evolution
> There are other groups- just noting this new ID TE group. They are
> "TE" but won't say it (because of their distaste for the term
> 'evolution' as atheistic).
> So anyway, I think this new book is going to push Behe and ID (God-
> guided evolution) more forward, as a general evangelical Christian
> response in the USA.
> ...Bernie
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Received on Tue Oct 27 14:06:42 2009

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