Re: [asa] An Intelligent Design Riddle

From: Schwarzwald <>
Date: Fri Oct 23 2009 - 05:00:10 EDT

Heya Murray,

No no. I didn't think you were insinuating that. Rather, I thought you meant
'a design inference [Specifically, this design inference] has no
theological/etc implications'. I just wanted to read more of what you meant,
that's all.

I do agree with what you're saying here. Oddly enough, that's why I wanted
some comments from this list's resident ID proponents (Of which I am one, to
a degree!) - because, strangely, I think what Gribbin and others are doing
here A) really is an ID inference, yet B) the DI tends to ignore, or worse,
deride these inferences. Possibly because they don't want to take yet more
theological flak from TEs who play the 'heretic!' card.

Then again, I also think ID has been moving beyond the scope of the DI for a
while now, and can/should continue to. (Not that the DI is horrible, but a
great idea shouldn't be limited to just one advocacy group.)

On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:49 AM, Murray Hogg <>wrote:

> Schwarzwald wrote:
>> I'd also like to know what you mean by Gribbin providing reason to believe
>> "this universe" is intelligently designed "without engaging in an attempt to
>> smuggle in religious truth claims by the back door". I don't think ID
>> proponents do that,
> Hi Schwarzwald,
> The issue isn't what my opinion is, the issue is what is objectively
> demonstrated by the fact that a person can advance an ID claim despite
> having no apparent religious motive for doing so.
> As far as I know, Gribbin has never affirmed commitment to any religious,
> or even metaphysical, system.
> As such, his advancement of an intelligent design claim - and it's a bit
> hard to see his thesis in any other light - demonstrates that the common
> claim that intelligent design claims are motivated purely by religious
> motives is false.
> Rather than ask what I'm trying to insinuate about ID theorists, you should
> recognize that Gribbin has, in positing this thesis from a non-religious
> perspective - provided compelling evidence for the claim that ID is
> motivated by the desire to solve scientific puzzles, not by the desire to
> advance religious agendas.
> I'm simply pointing out, in other words, that the next time somebody claims
> ID is a *religious* position - you can merely respond "Oh, yeah? And what
> about Gribbin?"
> Blessings,
> Murray
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Received on Fri Oct 23 05:00:48 2009

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