Re: [asa] An Intelligent Design Riddle

From: Schwarzwald <>
Date: Wed Oct 21 2009 - 19:22:47 EDT

Heya Ted,

I agree with the general sentiments here, but I'd point out that what
Gribbin seems to be driving at is something different than 'monotheism'. It
seems to be (Going by the quote I provide - I have not read the book yet)
something more esoteric - our universe being created by.. someone. In his
view, an advanced civilization would fit the bill; having the technological
capability of designing and creating a universe one way or another (perhaps
by simulation on a powerful computer, perhaps in another way, etc.) As I
said, I don't think on any reasonable reading we can regard atheism as true
in such a case, and I think naturalism has to be twisted into a pretzel to
accommodate such (which has interesting implications for naturalism).

It could be compatible with monotheism - as I said, "deism at the least",
and deism is on the same mental plane as theism, certainly monotheism. I
imagine it could also be polytheism/polydeism, or other such as well. Oddly,
and with some grim amusement, the only position Gribbin's view is not
compatible with, I maintain, is atheism.

That said, I'm hoping to read the responses of some of this list's
ID-proponents. I'm very ID sympathetic myself, and I think what Gribbin is
saying here opens the door to some very interesting questions about ID.

Ted comments. If our minds are like those of the creator, then the creator
> is a "personal" God. This isn't necessarily Christianity, as Schwarzwald
> notes, but it's at least monotheism: one creator (since the universe has a
> single mathematical structure) who is a personal being. You still need the
> Incarnation to get Christianity, and that is no small step -- it is crossed
> only by special revelation -- but it's entirely consistent with
> Christianity. For the true Platonists (and Gribbin's universe might be
> consistent with Platonism), the Incarnation is scandalous: Plato's God
> didn't muck about with us. For the Christian Platonists, however, the
> Incarnation was the greatest miracle. (I agree with them.)
> Ted

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Received on Wed Oct 21 19:23:01 2009

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