RE: [asa] ID question?

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Fri Oct 16 2009 - 10:04:55 EDT

Ted replied to Bill saying:
"Thus, for my eyes and ears, Bill, you've drawn a distinction without a difference."

I had the same exact response. It is really perplexing. Bill what are you trying to say? To us they sound exactly the same, so please define both terms and point out where there is a difference. Otherwise, we're ships passing in the night.

RE: Bill said:
"I think it a distinction between guided vs unguided speciation."

What is guided speciation and unguided speciation? How are they different?

Too me, "guided speciation" means God-guided evolution. "Unguided speciation" means evolution in either an atheistic or 'fully-gifted' kind of manner. Both are evolution. Both are against special creation as by fiat.

I think you are representing Behe's muddle well. Maybe it is supposed to be muddled? Is that part of the tactic? Is it a way to accept evolution (or be open to it) while still opposing it? I'm just asking out of frustration with the lack of clarity.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Davis []
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 6:02 AM
To: Bill Powers
Cc: asa; Dehler, Bernie
Subject: RE: [asa] ID question?

>>> Bill Powers <> 10/16/2009 12:08 AM >>> said:


I don't think I see ID as guided evolution vs unguided evolution. I
think it a distinction between guided vs unguided speciation. In this
way, if ID is a guided speciation, it could be compatible with special
creation or TE, which I think it is.

I don't see how the ID debate can be between evolution and special
creation, unless you mean something more restrictive by evolution. ID is
clearly compatible with either a special creation (meaning God directly
intervenes in the creation to create each individual species) or evolution
(entailing some form of descent with modification).

In the latter case, descent with modification could be guided inasmuch
as God is involved in some way.



Ted replies. Bill, I don't see much of a difference between "evolution" and "speciation." Admittedly, I'm no biologist, but historically what excited/outraged/intrigued people about "evolution" was that Darwin claimed to provide a true theory of "speciation." He didn't use the word "evolution" at all in the first edition of the Origin, in fact -- however, he used the word "evolved" as the final word in the book.

Thus, for my eyes and ears, Bill, you've drawn a distinction without a difference. In my mind, we agree. By "evolution" I mean simply descent with modification, or "speciation."



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Received on Fri Oct 16 10:05:44 2009

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