Re: RES: [asa] Fw: book "By Design"

From: <>
Date: Thu Sep 17 2009 - 11:49:52 EDT

& in fact the idea of "irreducible complexity" is demolished by a purely theoretical argument even if no actual intermediates are found. The realization that parts of a complex mechanism could be used for some function other than that of the complete mechanism shows that the concept of irreducible complexity is vacuous.


---- Marcio Pie <> wrote:
> From what I recall, Miller's point has nothing to do with what came first.
> If the flagellum is an irreducibly complex structure, if a part of it is
> missing, it shouldn't be useful for anything (hence the mouse trap analogy).
> The fact that TTSS is functional is evidence that the more comprehensive
> system (flagellum) is not irreducible complex. Notice that one does not have
> to prove every single step in the process to refute ID. All one needs to do
> is to show that intermediates are possible and functional.
> Marcio
> De: [] Em nome
> de John Walley
> Enviada em: quarta-feira, 16 de setembro de 2009 21:16
> Para: AmericanScientificAffiliation
> Assunto: [asa] Fw: book "By Design"
> FYI This is from a biology prof friend of mine. Any response on the "The
> fact that the bacterial flagellum came FIRST just blows away Miller's ideas"
> comment?
> John
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> Am reading a book called "By Design" by Jonathan Sarfati.
> The book is EXCELLENT.
> Did you know that the bacterial transporter--Type III Secretory System
> (TTSS) that Kenneth R. Miller (author of the book "Finding Darwin's God")
> talks about actually evolved LATER than the bacterial flagellum? Miller
> claims that the bacterial flagellum is NOT "irreducibly complex" because he
> says the TTSS protein have significant components in common with the
> flagellum. Only about 10 components of the 40 in the bacterial flagellum
> are in common with the bacterial transporter. 30 proteins are brand new.
> The fact that the bacterial flagellum came FIRST just blows away Miller's
> ideas, and argues that the flagellum was a PLANNED, designed system for
> bacterial locomotion.
> "Scott Minnich, of the University of Idaho, a world expert on the flagellar
> motor disagrees with Scientific American and Miller" p. 137 of book.
> The TTSS protein acts as a kind of molecular pump, which can inject toxins
> into cells (Ex, Yersinia pestis, the causative agent of the bubonic plague).
> According to the book, the TTSS secretory apparatus is a "degeneration from
> the flagellum." If the flagellum assembly is diabled, "it can punch out
> proteins (including toxins) in a haphazard way, as the TTSS does." p 138 of
> book.
> Also included: conch shells, turtle magnetic navigation, gecko feet
> adhesives, the simplest life, the cell, etc.
> ISBN # 978-0-949806-72-4
> The Bible says that birds evolved before land reptiles, which is in
> disagreement with evolutionary theory--that birds came AFTER reptiles. I
> think I ready somewhere that some paleontologists have found ancient birds
> which are, indeed, older than reptiles (but I need to check more on this).
> I still think that evolution CANNOT explain the great degree of complexity
> in life forms given our short period of geologic time.

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Received on Thu Sep 17 11:50:32 2009

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