Re: [asa] ICR vs. Francis Collins

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Wed Sep 02 2009 - 11:13:12 EDT


ICR and IDM have nothing to do with each other. Well, as little to do with
each other as ICR and TE could have to do with each other.

A lame analogy if I may?

Its sort of like a gang of robbers break into a pizza store and cart off a
dozen frozen pizzas, then the cops find them in their campground cooking
pizza on the campfire.
The cops then arrest the owner of the pizza store because they confuse the
guys who stole the pizza with the guys who made the pizza. Thats the
philosophical mistake you just made.

ICR people in general don't believe in IDM any more than they believe in OEC
or TE. They jump on any bandwagon that helps promote their stuff when its
convenient. Most of them I have met are resistant to many of the ID
theoretical concepts.

AIG people are even worse...comparing IDM with the gay rights movement for

A person who is interested in evaluating ID on its merits is going to be
driven insane by the ICR fans. What I think is hilarious is the atheists
think TE and ID and ICR are all the same thing. Apparently you can run but
you cannot run far enough??? :) All Christian momotheists have some
things in common.

But lets rejoice...the ICR people don't have the power to send us all to
hell. Guess who has the say so over that one? :) So who cares what they
think or what their theology is? I view their theology sort of like I view
voodoo theology.


On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Dave Wallace <>wrote:

> This is very discouraging and not the least helpful! This just increases
> my determination to distance myself from the IDM although not from what
> those like Behe are saying. It reminds me of R C Sproul's comment about
> John Stott when Stott declared that he accepted conditional immortality.
> Dave W (ASA member)
> Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> This just in from ICR- Institute for Creation Research:
> Excerpt:
> Should we conclude that Dr. Francis Collins is not a "born again" Christian
> as described in the Bible? He appears to be genuine and sincere in his
> belief that Jesus Christ is his personal Savior. But quite troubling is
> Collins' public and proud disbelief in the historicity of the Bible, the
> existence of Adam and Eve, the event of the Fall, and many more fundamental
> doctrines of God's Word--leading one to conclude that even if he is a
> Christian, his self-selective beliefs are terribly resistant to God's truth,
> revealing his dangerously poor view of the power of God. Like the Sadducees,
> Collins errs by "not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God" (Matthew
> 22:29 <>).
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Received on Wed Sep 2 11:14:17 2009

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