Re: [asa] (freewill) Nothing_in_Biology_Makes_Sense_Except_in_the_Light_of_Evolution

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Mon Aug 17 2009 - 14:16:21 EDT


This is why a wiki is so much better than email. I could just point you the
page then.

All I can say is Fred Heeren in his book "Show Me God" has done a good job
of explaining why free will is important to presreve even if it means He
allows horrible things happen. The other available explanations dont
measure up.

I'd also recommend "Surprised by Suffering" by RC Sproul, and "Finding
God" by Larry Crabb. The latter is the most important book I have ever
read, bar none.

Everyone must decide if they will call God good in spite of all the
horrible things that happen. Dealing with this is the most important
process anyone will ever face.


On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Dehler, Bernie <>wrote:

> David Clounch said:
> “Why does a loving God allow suffering and evil? It has to do with free
> will. He could easily fix it all if only he would override our free will.”
> God created man with freewill and said it was good. Then the fall
> happened. Evil can’t be because of freewill because God said it was good;
> unless evil is good, because evil flows from freewill. We know that evil is
> not good by definition. It is impossible for humans not to sin, because of
> freewill, so the fall was inevitable. Therefore God designed us knowing
> that we will sin, if God is all-knowing. Correct?
> I think the reason none of this makes sense is because it is ‘ancient
> theology.’ It is like trying to make sense of the science or history of the
> Bible, but it is wrong because it is ancient.
> I appreciate any feedback in showing me the error of my logic.
> …Bernie
> ------------------------------
> *From:* David Clounch []
> *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2009 4:07 PM
> *To:* Dehler, Bernie
> *Cc:*
> *Subject:* Re: [asa]
> Nothing_in_Biology_Makes_Sense_Except_in_the_Light_of_Evolution
> Consider all the spontaneous abortions (naturally occurring), still
> births, birth defects, etc. God created all those people specifically to
> die? I myself had a daughter that died a few moments after birth, due to
> birth defects. I don’t think that was God’s direct will (you will likely
> say His permissive will). And it is not just about my experience- it is
> multiplied my many times all over the world, even more in undeveloped
> nations (where even healthy babies and mom’s die due to birth complications
> that could be avoided in the USA). So God made you and has plans for your
> life… what about all those others who died way too premature? This is not a
> TE or YEC question, but a question really posed for all Christians to
> consider… one I struggle with too.
> Yes, I agree, the universe sucks. And we all suffer tragedy and wonder
> why. There is one decision we all have to make: Do we believe God is good
> in spite of it? That is the million dollar question.
> Its not an academic subject by any means. Most people totally avoid
> deciding this until they experience suffering in their personal lives. And
> then it is an agonizing thought process.
> Why does a loving God allow suffering and evil? It has to do with free
> will. He could easily fix it all if only he would override our free will.
> Fred Heeren's book does a really good job of dealing with this. (Fred is
> a list member - and he gives me a 25% discount for plugging his book. No he
> doesn't.).

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Received on Mon Aug 17 14:17:20 2009

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