Re: [asa] Youth leaving churches because of old earth

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Sat Aug 08 2009 - 16:43:04 EDT

From Dave Heddle's blog I read the ten papers (abstracts) and then also
made a random click link to
and I just now listened to D.A. Carson on Biblical inerrancy.

BTW, I listened on linux because this linux, unlike my laptop, is a 32 bit
system and there are plugins for the browser.

Anyway, it seems to me what he says about inerrancy being a belief that
isn't essential for salvation is sort of analogous to beliefs about
origins. Belief in inerrancy is something even Satan can do, and it wont
save you. One must trust the Christ for one's salvation.
I noticed some other comments. The bible isn't a book of systematic
theology, for example.
It is a book containing lament, adoration, parabolic stories, etc., and
more. You know, I myself really don't care about any of those - to me it
is systematic theology that would be interesting.
So to me Bible Study Fellowship studies would be boring. It would be like
being forced to take an art class. Boring.

I think James Patterson's comments on education being secular is right on.
Public school is a lot like silent spring - dead silence about God. But
part of the reason for that isnt atheists. Its the attacks on YEC's by
non-YEC's. For example, Mike Zimmerman gets 10,000+ clergy to sign a
petition, then goes to Grantsburg Wisconsin and attempts to ruin the career
of superintendent Joni Burginson in order to kabosh another group of
Christians (the YECers, or people who are perceived to be YECers). The
result: all discussion that might allow children to believe that
belief in God is OK is suppressed, ie, silent spring ensues. The intramural
warfare causes silent spring. This is Christian on Christian warfare. It
is a spirit of intolerance. And the sad part is that school district
wasn't trying to promote anything about God in the first place. They were
just trying to not say that science rules God out. Thats all they wanted.
But Christians wouldn't allow it.

On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 4:52 PM, David Heddle <> wrote:

> Great comments on this topic--which is near and dear to me.
> At risk of sounding like fundie, the bottom line is that any church that
> teaches anything close to "Salvation by Correct View of the End Times" or
> "Salvation by Correct View of the Beginning Times" is preaching a different
> gospel and is, therefore, apostate.
> Aside: I have a little science/faith challenge on my blog that you may find
> amusing. Or not.
> Science/Faith Challenge <>
> David Heddle
> Associate Professor of Physics
> Christopher Newport University, and
> The Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Laboratory
> On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Dave Wallace <>wrote:
>> Bill Powers wrote:
>> Anyone who leaves the "church" because of a supposed tension between what
>> has been taught and what the world says or what reason appears to confirm is
>> no Christian, and anyone who stays because of some harmony between the
>> world, reason, and faith is likewise not a Christian.
>> I seem to recall Jesus saying something about millstones and people who
>> discourage little children from coming to him. It seems to me that you are
>> getting close to a theology that in effect denies secondary causes. I
>> certanily affirm predestination but to me at least it is always in tension
>> with statements like "And if I be lifted up I will draw all men to me". In
>> a sunday school class as an adult, I recall an elder who was also a seminary
>> reformed theology professor correct Jesus' statement to say that he meant
>> only the elect.
>> The Church has bigger fish to fry, like sin, perdition, redemption, and
>> salvation. I would flee any church, pro or con, that spends a noticeable
>> amount of time on the issue.
>> Here here! I agree.
>> Dave W
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Received on Sat, 8 Aug 2009 15:43:04 -0500

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