RE: [asa] Cameron- question of Adam

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Sat Jun 20 2009 - 21:21:56 EDT

Hi Cameron:

I'd recommend this publication you may have missed.

Dick Fischer, author, lecturer
Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham

-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of Cameron Wybrow
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:35 PM
To: asa
Subject: Re: [asa] Cameron- question of Adam


I spent the early part of my life as a Darwinist and learned my catechism
well. I could recite the entire litany of pro-evolutionary arguments
(comparative anatomy, vestigial organs, ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny,
peppered moths, antibiotic resistance, fused chromosomes, biogeographical
distribution, etc.) in my sleep. I would have thought that the level of my
discussions would have made this clear to you. Therefore, your suggestion
that I still need a bit of tutoring to understand the evidence for evolution

rather dumbfounds me. But if you are really convinced that I need such
tutoring, perhaps you could recommend one of your scientific publications to

me, and I will look at it, to see if there are any arguments that I have

You continue to miss the point of my argument about the fused chromosome. I

said that it remains logically possible that God created humans and chimps
independently, with exactly the chromosomal arrangements that they have, and

that your argument comes down to "God wouldn't have done it that way". But
YEC people can just retort that God must have done it that way, since that
is what we see. It is just one theological statement against another, and
science cannot resolve the impasse.

You don't seem to grasp that you will never budge a YEC proponent by the
fused chromosome argument, or any such argument. The problem is not that
YECs are dumb at science. Many of them are in fact quite bright at science,

and hold down jobs in various scientific fields. The problem is the way
that YECs read the Bible. They think that they have the religious duty not
to accept arguments for common descent because they think the Bible offers a

literal account of origins. So even those YECs who have a very keen
understanding of science will find ways, however contrived, of
re-interpreting the data in order to preserve literalism. Until you can
change the way they read the Bible, you are beating your head against a
stone wall to keep trying to amass genetic arguments, comparative anatomy
arguments, etc.

As for your comments about outreach, your Americocentric remarks show that
you are entirely unfamiliar with the Canadian religious and cultural scene
and are therefore not in a position to say what would or would not work up
here. It is best that I say no more on this point.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehler, Bernie" <>
To: "asa" <>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 4:29 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Cameron- question of Adam

> Cameron- you also said that you might think it was possible that God
> created Adam, biologically, from scratch, from a pile of dirt. First, you
> need to understand and fully accept the biological origins for humans.
> You haven't done that completely yet. When you do, you will be able to
> rule-out the possibility of Adam being made, biologically, YEC style.
> Then you will come to see the danger of YEC to the evangelical church.
> The people you want to reach, of course, won't consider Christianity,
> because they conflate it with YEC... which is unscientific. If you want
> to reach atheists, I think you also need to simultaneously rebuke the
> YEC's, who block the path to Christianity from the intellectuals who may
> want to join.
> Too many think that you have to believe in a global flood and a young
> earth in order to be an evangelical. That's why they need to be told of
> another way into Christianity.
> ...Bernie

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Received on Sat Jun 20 21:23:19 2009

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