Re: [asa] The Patient Creator

From: <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com>
Date: Fri Jun 19 2009 - 14:04:13 EDT

Mike -

I didn't mean to attribute the statements you quote to you.

What I said about God's purpose for creation was indeed generic & deliberately so. I'm quite willing to be more specific: God's purpose in creation is Christ - Eph.1:10. Creation is for the sake of Incarnation. & if that is the case it seems plausible that the development of an intelligent species in which God could be incarnate would be required. That's why I've suggested that anthropic principle arguments in science can be used in support of a theanthropic principle in theology.

Shalom,
George

---- Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:
> Hi George,
>
> I'm not the one who wrote, "it makes no sense to imagine that an
> all-powerful God would need to devise this vast universal Rube Goldberg
> contrivance for the sake of creating life, rather than just doing it in one
> fell swoop of His mighty hand."
>
> A skeptic on my blog wrote this and another skeptic agreed with the
> "argument." They formulated the complaint as an issue of divine power so I
> played by their rules.
>
> As for God intending to "create a universe which had its own "functional
> integrity" & would be capable (with divine cooperation) of bringing forth
> intelligent life," I'm not sure God's intentions would be so generic and
> distant. I think an evolutionary scenario & long time scale (by human
> standards) were a necessity because that is part of our history and God
> intended us to exist. Once again, because of us.
>
> Mike
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <gmurphy10@neo.rr.com>
> To: <asa@calvin.edu>; "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
> Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 12:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] The Patient Creator
>
>
> > If God intended to create a universe which had its own "functional
> > integrity" & would be capable (with divine cooperation) of bringing forth
> > intelligent life then an evolutionary scenario & long time scale (by human
> > standards) would be pretty much a necessity. I don't think the issue here
> > is divine omnipotence.
> >
> > Shalom,
> > George
> >
> > ---- Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com> wrote:
> >> If the Universe is 14 billion years old, and humans evolved only about
> >> 300 million years ago, then Creation existed without humans for 13.7
> >> billion years. For some, this is a problem for Christian faith: "it makes
> >> no sense to imagine that an all-powerful God would need to devise this
> >> vast universal Rube Goldberg contrivance for the sake of creating life,
> >> rather than just doing it in one fell swoop of His mighty hand."
> >>
> >> This argument is essentially subjective and it targets the omnipotence of
> >> God. The idea is that a truly all-powerful God would not have to employ
> >> such an immensely long, drawn out, inefficient process since He had the
> >> power to bring Creation into existence in an instantaneous act. Why
> >> bother with 13.7 billion years of irrelevant history when what matters is
> >> the origin of humankind?
> >>
> >> Now, I have already noted that even Genesis does not teach an
> >> instantaneous, all-at-once, creation. Certainly, God could have created
> >> all of reality in one fell swoop of His mighty hand. And He could have
> >> done so last Thursday. But that is not what happened. So we need to ask
> >> why it is that creation is so old and why it is that creation existed as
> >> long as it did without humans. But before getting to that directly, we
> >> should also pause to consider that this ancient Universe is consistent
> >> with the teachings about God.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> More here:
> >> http://shadowtolight.wordpress.com/2009/06/17/the-patient-creator/
> >>
> >> Mike
> >
>
>
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Received on Fri Jun 19 14:04:41 2009

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