Re: [asa] ID vis a vis id

From: Jim Armstrong <>
Date: Tue Jun 02 2009 - 00:17:12 EDT

Deism conventionally presumes hands off after creation.
Front-loading comes in more than one flavor, but as I see it, though
Creation is presumed to be running essentially on automatic (by design),
but God's interaction with the physical is not precluded, just not primary.

Instead, his sphere of primary activity and interest by and large
appears to me to lie in aspects of Creation which transcend the physical
workings (including the biological) of Creation. We talk of God in terms
of spirit (other than physical), and our interactions with him and with
each other in some domain other than the physical. It was created from
"nothing"/chaos, and eternity is presumed by many to be outside the
physical constraints, so I just don't understand the imperative for God
to actively either choose to or be required to sustain and direct the
rather humdrum* physical workings of Creation (*especially when its
workings are so creatively productive as-designed).

So a question back - does the problem with front-loading reduce to
thinking that it precludes God's ability/willingness to interact with
nature to respond to our needs/prayers? If so, I don't think that is an
issue per se with front-loading. It might be with Deism.

JimA [Friend of ASA]

Terry M. Gray wrote:
> So for those of you who are "front-loaders" I have a question. How is
> front-loading different from deism?
> TG
> On Jun 1, 2009, at 1:13 PM, David Campbell wrote:
>> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 9:26 AM, <> wrote:
>>> Just to clarify my view here, I think that both quantum theory AND
>>> chaos theory have to be considered in this connection. They are not
>>> unrelated, though precisely how they should be put together is
>>> unclear.<
>> Not to mention all the other things that are not amenable to precise
>> human prediction without exactly fitting the mathematical definitions
>> of chaos or falling under quantum physics.
>> Interpretation of God's action in such cases will relate to one's
>> position on the predestination-free will continuum as well. More
>> emphasis on predestination would generally tend to favor a
>> "front-loaded" design view, whereas a more Arminian take would tend
>> towards favoring the idea of God adjusting things as needed. The
>> correlation is not rigid-God could decide in advance to tweak things
>> at a given point in a given way, or He could set up a largely
>> front-loaded system that still allows for some range of options, for
>> example, but it does illustrate the fact that very much of the stuff
>> brought up in discussions on ID or evolution already have a long
>> history of discussion under other theological headings.
>> --
>> Dr. David Campbell
>> 425 Scientific Collections
>> University of Alabama
>> "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
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> ________________
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Received on Tue Jun 2 00:17:43 2009

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