Re: [asa] BioLogos - Bad Theology?

From: Nucacids <nucacids@wowway.com>
Date: Sat May 30 2009 - 13:00:08 EDT

Hi Jack,

We may exist, ultimately, as metaphyical entities, but is this metaphysical ground substance sufficient for establishing our identity? It may be necessary, but is it sufficient? When you want to get to know someone, and feel that you have gotten to know someone, what type of information delivers that knowledge? Isn't it knowledge of someone's personality, history, choices?

Mike
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jack
  To: Nucacids ; Iain Strachan
  Cc: asa@lists.calvin.edu
  Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2009 7:22 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] BioLogos - Bad Theology?

  Mike's argument is a perfect example of why extreme physicalism is bad theology.

  "Us" is also a metaphysical entity that can exist apart from the body.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Nucacids
    To: Iain Strachan
    Cc: asa@lists.calvin.edu
    Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 8:14 PM
    Subject: Re: [asa] BioLogos - Bad Theology?

    Hi Iain,

     

    “Yes, but what do you mean by "us"?”

     

    You. Me. Our spouses. Our children. Our parents. Not abstract mental constructs like "human." Living, breathing, real people. Us.

     

    “Just how different from the homo sapiens that we know does it have to be before it's not "us" any more? Let's assume that the dominant intelligent, rational species is called "human" just for the sake of argument - after all it's just a label, just a name. So what if all humans had pointed ears and green blood, and God became incarnate in a green-blooded pointy-eared individual, and then died on the Cross to save our doomed race of green-blooded pointy eared sinners? Why would that not be Christianity just the same - it is the same redemptive plan, the only difference is that "humans" look a bit different.”

     

    It might be the Christian Gospel played out for another species, but since I do not believe we are ghosts in a machine, it would not, and could not, be us. Perhaps it would help if I quoted a key part to my original essay:

    So what makes us us? Our genetic identities. Our experiences. Our memories. Our choices.

    -Mike

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Iain Strachan
      To: Nucacids
      Cc: asa@lists.calvin.edu
      Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 4:52 PM
      Subject: Re: [asa] BioLogos - Bad Theology?

      Dear Mike,

      I'm still not getting it, I'm afraid:

        Hi Iain,

        No, the problem comes if our theology entails that God actually intended us to exist. C-M’s argument never gets to us. What is worse, it is content to substitute another species for us.

      Yes, but what do you mean by "us"? Just how different from the homo sapiens that we know does it have to be before it's not "us" any more? Let's assume that the dominant intelligent, rational species is called "human" just for the sake of argument - after all it's just a label, just a name. So what if all humans had pointed ears and green blood, and God became incarnate in a green-blooded pointy-eared individual, and then died on the Cross to save our doomed race of green-blooded pointy eared sinners? Why would that not be Christianity just the same - it is the same redemptive plan, the only difference is that "humans" look a bit different.

       

        “Is it not the case that God cares about our immortal soul more than about the physical form the body takes?”

        Do you believe that our body is superfluous to our identity? Ghost in a machine?

      Do I think body is an essential part of our identity? I'm not sure to be honest. I think our personality is an essential part of our identity, and this presumably depends on the way our brains are wired up amongst a whole bunch of other stuff. But it also seems to me that in modern society that too much importance is placed on image as identity (think of Princess Diana for example - you couldn't get away from her image in the newspapers - it became her identity).

      Iain

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Received on Sat May 30 13:00:40 2009

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