Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded

From: Don Winterstein <dfwinterstein@msn.com>
Date: Fri May 29 2009 - 01:09:20 EDT

Oh, yeah! That's why we find brachiopod shells on the surface and diatoms 1000 m down. Right?

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Michael Roberts<mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
  To: Don Winterstein<mailto:dfwinterstein@msn.com> ; John Burgeson (ASA member)<mailto:hossradbourne@gmail.com>
  Cc: asa<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
  Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:08 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded

  Don

  Surely this is hydraulic sorting?
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Don Winterstein<mailto:dfwinterstein@msn.com>
    To: John Burgeson (ASA member)<mailto:hossradbourne@gmail.com>
    Cc: asa<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
    Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 7:38 AM
    Subject: Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded

    John wrote: "Isn't the REAL question here 'What discovery or experiment could falsify the fact of evolution.' Or perhaps, 'could falsify the fact of common descent?' Perhaps there is nothing which could, even hypothetically, do so. Unlike Newton's laws, it is such an elastic theory."

    Not so. Experiments could easily falsify evolution. That they haven't done so doesn't mean they aren't capable of doing so.

    Example: Study fossil sequences in some geologic columns. If a fossil sequence is incoherent, evolution cannot be true. By incoherent I mean that fossils appear in no apparent order.

    The most amazing and compelling support for evolution is that, wherever fossils of geologic columns are studied worldwide, the same sequences appear everywhere (except, understandably, in cases where sediments have been reworked). The consistency of these sequences is such that certain fossils are used to assign dates to rocks.

    There is no a priori reason why fossils should appear in such order. For example, the worldwide flood model (Noah's) would predict somewhat random distributions of fossils that would vary from place to place.

    The elephant you've ignored in the room is that fossil sequences are orderly. Disorder would have sealed evolution's tomb, no matter what the "evidence" from DNA, etc.

    Don

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Don Winterstein<mailto:dfwinterstein@msn.com>
      To: Michael Roberts<mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> ; John Burgeson (ASA member)<mailto:hossradbourne@gmail.com>
      Cc: AmericanScientificAffiliation<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
      Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:50 AM
      Subject: Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded

      Precambrian rabbits would falsify the common descent aspect of evolution: *not everything would have emerged from a single organism.*

      Don

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: John Burgeson (ASA member)<mailto:hossradbourne@gmail.com>
        To: Michael Roberts<mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
        Cc: David Campbell<mailto:pleuronaia@gmail.com> ; AmericanScientificAffiliation<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
        Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:37 AM
        Subject: Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded

        But assume the discovery is made of a whole slew of rabbit fossils in
        pre-cambrian strata?

        Assume also that there is NO credible (or even incredible) evidence
        that they got there during later earth movements.

        Assume also that there is no discovery of related fossils, or of plant
        life that rabbits generally feed upon. Nor anything else that even
        remotely relates to rabbit life as we know it.

        Would this falsify? I think not. Would it be an anomaly? Of course.
        Would it excite all sorts of new explorations? Yes.

        My guess is that some form of time-travel speculation would arise,
        similar to the multiverse speculation, and we'd limp on from there.

        On 5/27/09, Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk<mailto:michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>> wrote:
> Years ago Haldane said "rabbits in the Precambrian"
>
> That does me
>
> PS Will that make David clam up:)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Burgeson (ASA member)" <hossradbourne@gmail.com<mailto:hossradbourne@gmail.com>>
> To: "David Campbell" <pleuronaia@gmail.com<mailto:pleuronaia@gmail.com>>
> Cc: "AmericanScientificAffiliation" <asa@calvin.edu<mailto:asa@calvin.edu>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 3:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Fossil Discovery Is Heralded
>
>
>> Isn't the REAL question here "What discovery or experiment could
>> falsify the fact of evolution." Or perhaps, "could falsify the fact of
>> common descent?"
>>
>> Perhaps there is nothing which could, even hypothetically, do so.
>> Unlike Newton's laws, it is such an elastic theory. Perhaps it has to
>> be that way.
>>
>> On 5/26/09, David Campbell <pleuronaia@gmail.com<mailto:pleuronaia@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>> Now if the fossil had been found in 10000 year old glacial till or in
>>>>> the
>>>>> Cambrian then "evolution" would be wrong
>>>
>>> If it was found in younger deposits, that's no problem-forms retaining
>>> ancestral conditions can survive after new types arise. There might
>>> be a problem if a very good fossil record only showed the supposed
>>> ancestor more recent than some of the supposed descendants, but
>>> primates have a bad habit of living in trees and falling apart after
>>> death instead of burrowing into the bottom of shallow oceans and
>>> having only one or two shells, a much better way to have a good fossil
>>> record.
>>>
>>> A mammal turning up in the Cambrian would be problematic for
>>> evolution. Although it would not prove that everything else didn't
>>> evolve, we might start speculating about a lost alien pet or the like
>>> in the particular case (or misdated rocks, like the "Carboniferous"
>>> Physa snail that turned out to be Cretaceous.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. David Campbell
>>> 425 Scientific Collections
>>> University of Alabama
>>> "I think of my happy condition, surrounded by acres of clams"
>>>
>>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu<mailto:majordomo@calvin.edu> with
>>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Burgy
>>
>> www.burgy.50megs.com<http://www.burgy.50megs.com/>
>>
>> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu<mailto:majordomo@calvin.edu> with
>> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>>
>>
>
>
>

        --
        Burgy

        www.burgy.50megs.com<http://www.burgy.50megs.com/>

        To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu<mailto:majordomo@calvin.edu> with
        "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Fri May 29 01:09:55 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Fri May 29 2009 - 01:09:55 EDT