Re: [asa] BioLogos - Bad Theology?

From: Schwarzwald <>
Date: Wed May 27 2009 - 09:14:25 EDT

Or maybe it's possible that God is picking more than one 'favorite'? This
would take us far afield, but I imagine it's possible that God deals with
far more than us, and our timeline alone.

On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 7:59 AM, Merv Bitikofer <> wrote:

> I agree with you that this notion of general divine action is not
> satisfying (especially from a Scriptural point of view). If God picked
> favorites among a virtually infinite number of possible universes, then why
> wouldn't he have picked ones in which his chosen people remained faithful?
> Or for that matter where the forbidden fruit was never taken? To the same
> extent that God is not "off the hook" for evil in a divine "interventionist"
> universe, He still would not be off the hook for the initial selection of
> one including evil. Scriptures show us a God that genuinely laments the
> unfaithfulness of his bride, suggesting that he really really wished we had
> been obedient, but is willing to plan and respond in a world where that did
> not happen.
> --Merv
> wjp wrote:
>> As I understand this coherence of Darwinism and Christianity, a story, one
>> similar to one that Cameron has previously offered, might go something like
>> this.
>> Take a large set of coin flippers, video tape a large sequence of each
>> coin flipper's flips, view the outcomes of all the flippers, and then select
>> one particular flipper's video to play.
>> The coin flippers are possible universes. The results of each of their
>> flippings are the events of that particular universe. The video taping is
>> God's foreknowledge. God selects from His viewings and by His foreknowledge,
>> a particular universe to actualize. That is the video He plays back.
>> The flipping events, not only those of the one God chooses, but all the
>> flipping events of all the flippers, are determined by law and chance.
>> Anyone viewing the flipping events could obtain a probability distribution
>> for the flipping events. The particular sequence of flipping events is a
>> chance event. Neither the flipper, nor the coin have any marks of
>> intentionality or design. (If we want we can get rid of the flipper and use
>> some sort of machine, just so the lack of "caring" or teleology is more
>> evident.)
>> So in the events themselves, and the entities involved, there is only
>> indifferent mechanism, without any caring for the specific results obtained.
>> But in God's selection of which universe and chance sequence to actualized
>> there is design and intelligence.
>> As I understand this position, we are not to reject by it SDA (Specific
>> Divine Action) and maintain that only GDA (General Divine Action) occurs.
>> For in the chosing of a specific universe it is possible that specific
>> choices are made (e.g., Jacob I loved, but Easu I hated). But this specific
>> choice is accomplished, according to this model, without God's intervention
>> inside the universe, but rather from outside of it. In this way the
>> objection by some of God's intervention inside the universe is overcome.
>> Indeed, the model likewise permits the possibility that only GDA occurs.
>> In this way, the "theological" objections of some to SDA might also be met.
>> It is, if I have it right, a clever story. But one I do not find
>> satisfying, or, more importantly, consistent with the God we meet in
>> Scripture, who appears to be constantly "fiddling" and interacting with
>> those that are His People and those that are not His People. It seems,
>> rather, that God's intervention is not rare, but common.
>> bill
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Received on Wed May 27 09:14:58 2009

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