Re: [asa] Musing on entropy, chaos, and omniscience

From: dfsiemensjr <>
Date: Mon May 25 2009 - 14:43:47 EDT

There seems to be a problem with /nihilo/ or nothing. /Creatio ex nihilo/
indicates that what now is was not. I was going to write "once was not"
but that suggests more strongly that there was a time before, which
cannot be the case. We are so much creatures of time that we cannot
comprehend that creation initiated time, space, matter and energy. Our
language does not deal well with the concept of an absolute beginning.
The ancients were equally involved in such thought and tended to hold
that nothing or chaos was a thing from which things were organized or
made. Jim, I note that you have God tinkering in a pretime time, trying
things out. One can read John 1:1, "In the beginning was ..." that way,
but most exegetes do not consider this the intent.
Dave (ASA)

On Mon, 25 May 2009 10:38:54 -0700 Jim Armstrong <>
I too am grateful for the presence and consistency of the conservation
laws, now that Creation is in place.
But that really wasn't the point.
Whatever God did to initialize Creation is the point, and it seems to me
that "ex nihilo" as a process might well be the way it appears to us in
our context. But that appearance may not be (and probably isn't)
particularly accurate if we were able to access the domain of God's
existence. Our context does not span the whole of reality, most
particularly not spanning the reality of God's existence. Who knows? He
may have a workshop or laboratory, and raw starting stuff in forms of
which we know nothing and of which we are incapable of knowing. We would
never know the difference from that and ex nihilo. But the posit of ex
nihilo just seems inappropriate, more akin to a statement of magic than a
descriptor of divine creation. This is just an opinion. Perhaps most
users of "ex nihilo" are aware of the implicit limitation. Maybe not.

The use of this expression does offer a convenient shorthand, and I guess
I would be hard-pressed to offer a concise substitute at this point.

JimA [Friend of ASA]
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Received on Mon May 25 14:50:05 2009

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