Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID

From: dawson wayne <dawsonzhu@gmail.com>
Date: Sun May 10 2009 - 19:33:43 EDT

Bill,

<<<It seems to me that [below] would only indicate the possibility that this
universe was sufficiently "fine tuned" to support and generate life. As far
as I can tell, it tells me nothing about other universes: what they are like
or whether they even exist. The finding would just as well support that
there is only one universe.>>>

Very much agreed. There is speculation on how to detect other universes,
but as far as I know, none of them have yielded anything (as of yet at
least). It is hard for me to decide whether the proposal of a multiverse is
metaphysics or physics at this point. The Greeks did first propose the idea
of atoms, but there were plenty of propositions that were wrong. Moreover
even given we admit that as science, they did not predict the size, their
characteristics, or anything remotely akin to a periodic table. So a lot of
additional evidence was needed to confirm their correct ideas and there was
no way to firmly differentiate between their correct ideas and their
incorrect ones given the knowledge, understanding, practices and technology
of the time. So in this respect, my inclination is also to call the
multiverse proposition metaphysics. It would need a lot of compelling
evidence (so far, zero) to fully support it. At present, the models that
predict them are also of some question themselves, so any experiments
purported to support the models by grasping at the multiverse
proposition introduce an element of circular reasoning. Which idea are they
trying to support? Even given a purported measurement, there may be many
other explanations (all perfectly plausible) that don't require a
multiverse. Therefore, it is certainly on the borderline with metaphysics at
this time.

My original point was just that there would have to be an unexplained
selection parameter at work if we observed other worlds (in this universe)
with intelligent life (of no common origin to our own) that had very similar
life forms as our own. Especially if we find the Star Trek picture
with female space aliens that could give my teenage hormone levels a real
rush, something extra is going on that is not being revealed in the simple
reductionist approaches we have. That would indicate that
anthropic features are embedded in the laws of this universe.

by Grace we proceed,
Wayne
2009/5/10 Bill Powers <wjp@swcp.com>

> Wayne:
>
> You say:
>
> Nevertheless, if we detect another world in this universe with intelligent
>> life and that intelligent life is carbon based and similar to us in form,
>> then there is a very strong unexplained selection parameter at work. That
>> is what we would have to accept.
>>
>
> It seems to me that would only indicate the possibility that this universe
> was sufficiently "fine tuned" to support and generate life. As far as I can
> tell, it tells me nothing about other universes: what they are like or
> whether they even exist. The finding would just as well support that there
> is only one universe.
>
> bill
>

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Received on Sun May 10 19:34:15 2009

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