Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID

From: George Murphy <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com>
Date: Fri May 08 2009 - 16:42:32 EDT

Coope -

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The quantum vacuum energy is many
orders of magnitude larger than the value that would provide a cosmological
constant to account for present observations of acceleration. (Cf. the
"Search and Discovery" section of the March Physics Today.)

Anyway, if you made a sign error you would have been off by 2 x 10^120.
(But that means that your estimate of your error is indeed off by ~ 10^240.)

Shalom
George
http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm

----- Original Message -----
From: "George Cooper" <georgecooper@sbcglobal.net>
To: <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: RE: [asa] Multiverse and ID

> Speaking from the cosmological peanut gallery, I think the zero-point
> energy density value (prior to Dark Energy) is the most bizarre result
> I've ever seen. You may be amused to know that I had assumed Dark Energy
> was the mystery solution to the acceleration of the universe, which was
> found to be 120 orders of magnitude greater than they thought for a
> non-accelerating universe. But, as I understand, I had it all wrong and
> the 120 orders of magnitude is the amount of suppression for the
> zero-point energy density.
>
> Thus, I was off by 10^240! Is this a record? [Prv. 15:33 is my only
> comfort here. :( ]
>
> "Coope"
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On
> Behalf Of George Murphy
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:03 PM
> To: wjp; Ted Davis
> Cc: asa@lists.calvin.edu; Nucacids
> Subject: Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID
>
> The idea that "the world simply popped out of the quantum vacuum" does not
> at all solve the problem of ultimate origins since the quantum vacuum is
> very far from being "nothing."
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wjp" <wjp@swcp.com>
> To: "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
> Cc: <asa@lists.calvin.edu>; "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID
>
>
>> May I suggest that Murray Gellman's (and probably others) notion that
>> the world simply popped out of the quantum vacuum is another example
>> of anything being possible with infinite ignorance.
>>
>> bill
>>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2009 11:16:10 -0400, "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> This is great stuff for a new thread, Mike. As one of the triune
>>> moderators, I am intervening with a quasi-trinitarian omnipotence to
>>> change the title, in order to convey more accurately what this one is
>>> about. List members are asked to keep this heading for future posts
>>> related to Monton's comments and Koonin's "abracadabra" "model" for the
>>> origin of life.
>>>
>>> At least this member of the relevant trinity thinks this stuff is
>>> equivalent to the kind of "magic" that Polkinghorne says that God
>>> doesn't
>>> get involved in. As I like to say sometimes, once you invoke infinity
>>> all
>>> bets are off: this is truly a multiverse of the gaps. I wish I'd been
>>> asked to be one of the reviewers for this "science." At least now the
>>> resurrection becomes no longer impossible scientifically, does it?
>>> Somehow I sense that Dawkins would figure out a way to mis-use the
>>> anthropic principle to keep divine action from getting too close for his
>>> comfort, even if apparently it means to him that *anything* can happen,
>>> no
>>> matter how improbable it really is. There just has to be universe,
>>> somewhere, where Frodo keeps his finger and another one where Peter Pan
>>> really can fly; but somehow the anthropic principle would just have to
>>> rule out the existence of a universe in which Dawkins believed in God...
>>>
>>> This type of *$%^ is the best argument I have seen for considering
>>> joining
>>> the ID movement. Certainly it supports ID arguments about the
>>> arbitrariness of ruling out "non-natural" causes, even when those causes
>>> have some of the attributes usually associated with the "intelligent
>>> designer". The multiverse is infinite in space and time (if you don't
>>> agree, look at how many times Koonin uses that word), the ultimate
>>> ground
>>> of being, the source of every good and perfect gift (namely, worlds that
>>> produce life "intelligent" enough to believe anything is possible), the
>>> giver of life, and our only hope--which is of course that we have no
>>> hope.
>>>
>>> I've often told students that Aristotle's heaven had some of the
>>> attributes of divinity--perfection and eternity--which strike me as an
>>> implicit commentary on Greek polytheism. Christian Aristotelians
>>> rightly
>>> removed the latter and eventually telescopic observations put the former
>>> to rest. Penzias & Wilson added the observations to put the former into
>>> serious question for those who did not have confidence in revelation,
>>> but
>>> now it seems that eternity is back on the menu. Of course, this time,
>>> it
>>> won't be subject to observational refutation--but only b/c, when it
>>> comes
>>> to other universes with which we will never in principle have any
>>> contact,
>>> nothing is subject to observational refutation. I am reminded of what
>>> Galileo's interlocutor Salviati, said to the Aristotelian Simplicio in
>>> his
>>> famous book about the Copernican system, “our discourses must relate to
>>> the sensible world and not to one on paper.” Now that Simplicio has
>>> been reborn, in the person of Mr. Koonin, can!
>>>
>>> we bring back Salviati on behalf of Galileo?
>>>
>>> If anyone hears about pigs taking flight, somewhere, please do send me
>>> the
>>> reports. I'll submit them to Biology Direct for possible publication.
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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Received on Fri May 8 16:42:45 2009

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