Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID

From: wjp <wjp@swcp.com>
Date: Fri May 08 2009 - 16:28:15 EDT

George:

I fully agree. But, in his inimical style, I heard it straight from the
horse's mouth: Murray declared it so.
Case closed.

bill

On Fri, 8 May 2009 15:03:29 -0400, "George Murphy" <GMURPHY10@neo.rr.com> wrote:
> The idea that "the world simply popped out of the quantum vacuum" does not
> at all solve the problem of ultimate origins since the quantum vacuum is
> very far from being "nothing."
>
> Shalom
> George
> http://home.roadrunner.com/~scitheologyglm
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "wjp" <wjp@swcp.com>
> To: "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
> Cc: <asa@lists.calvin.edu>; "Nucacids" <nucacids@wowway.com>
> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 1:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [asa] Multiverse and ID
>
>
>> May I suggest that Murray Gellman's (and probably others) notion that
>> the world simply popped out of the quantum vacuum is another example
>> of anything being possible with infinite ignorance.
>>
>> bill
>>
>> On Fri, 08 May 2009 11:16:10 -0400, "Ted Davis" <TDavis@messiah.edu>
>> wrote:
>>> This is great stuff for a new thread, Mike. As one of the triune
>>> moderators, I am intervening with a quasi-trinitarian omnipotence to
>>> change the title, in order to convey more accurately what this one is
>>> about. List members are asked to keep this heading for future posts
>>> related to Monton's comments and Koonin's "abracadabra" "model" for the
>>> origin of life.
>>>
>>> At least this member of the relevant trinity thinks this stuff is
>>> equivalent to the kind of "magic" that Polkinghorne says that God
> doesn't
>>> get involved in. As I like to say sometimes, once you invoke infinity
>>> all
>>> bets are off: this is truly a multiverse of the gaps. I wish I'd been
>>> asked to be one of the reviewers for this "science." At least now the
>>> resurrection becomes no longer impossible scientifically, does it?
>>> Somehow I sense that Dawkins would figure out a way to mis-use the
>>> anthropic principle to keep divine action from getting too close for
> his
>>> comfort, even if apparently it means to him that *anything* can happen,
>>> no
>>> matter how improbable it really is. There just has to be universe,
>>> somewhere, where Frodo keeps his finger and another one where Peter Pan
>>> really can fly; but somehow the anthropic principle would just have to
>>> rule out the existence of a universe in which Dawkins believed in
> God...
>>>
>>> This type of *$%^ is the best argument I have seen for considering
>>> joining
>>> the ID movement. Certainly it supports ID arguments about the
>>> arbitrariness of ruling out "non-natural" causes, even when those
> causes
>>> have some of the attributes usually associated with the "intelligent
>>> designer". The multiverse is infinite in space and time (if you don't
>>> agree, look at how many times Koonin uses that word), the ultimate
> ground
>>> of being, the source of every good and perfect gift (namely, worlds
> that
>>> produce life "intelligent" enough to believe anything is possible), the
>>> giver of life, and our only hope--which is of course that we have no
>>> hope.
>>>
>>> I've often told students that Aristotle's heaven had some of the
>>> attributes of divinity--perfection and eternity--which strike me as an
>>> implicit commentary on Greek polytheism. Christian Aristotelians
> rightly
>>> removed the latter and eventually telescopic observations put the
> former
>>> to rest. Penzias & Wilson added the observations to put the former
> into
>>> serious question for those who did not have confidence in revelation,
> but
>>> now it seems that eternity is back on the menu. Of course, this time,
> it
>>> won't be subject to observational refutation--but only b/c, when it
> comes
>>> to other universes with which we will never in principle have any
>>> contact,
>>> nothing is subject to observational refutation. I am reminded of what
>>> Galileo's interlocutor Salviati, said to the Aristotelian Simplicio in
>>> his
>>> famous book about the Copernican system, “our discourses must relate
> to
>>> the sensible world and not to one on paper.” Now that Simplicio has
>>> been reborn, in the person of Mr. Koonin, can!
>>>
>>> we bring back Salviati on behalf of Galileo?
>>>
>>> If anyone hears about pigs taking flight, somewhere, please do send me
>>> the
>>> reports. I'll submit them to Biology Direct for possible publication.
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Received on Fri May 8 16:28:44 2009

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