RE: [asa] a creationist on the hiddenness of God

From: Dehler, Bernie <>
Date: Thu May 07 2009 - 15:27:04 EDT

I think the following is a fallacy:
"Only careful observers see His hand."

Scientists are painfully "careful observers." If anyone could "carefully observe" it should be scientists. If God's workings are imperceptible, I don't think it is because of the fault of the observer. Also- if it only took a "careful observation" to see God at work, then that perception could be then shown to others once it is discovered-- so where is it? That's what DI ID'ers are trying to do (explain God's hand at work through Intelligent Design because life as we know it is impossible to happen naturally), but they don't seem to have a compelling "careful observation" to peddle.


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On Behalf Of Ted Davis
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: [asa] a creationist on the hiddenness of God

Cameron Wybrow has been encouraging us to talk about a kenotic view of
creation and God "hiding himself", in connection with TE and ID. While
browsing in the college library this afternoon, I found a very curious
little book by Gorman Gray, a retired engineer, called "The Age of the
Universe: What Are the Biblical Limits?" Information is at

Mr Gray is an advocate of a universe with "undefined age," but a recent
biosphere (no more than 6000 years ago or 7500 years ago if the Septuagint
is used). I encountered a similar view once, when a Brazilian teacher told
me about it. Actually the famous YEC George McCready Price admitted this
possibility at one point. As a say, a curious little book.

My point in mentioning it here is that I found the opening paragraph of the
preface to be interesting in connection with the theme of this thread. I
quote as follows. Remember, the author is a creationist, if not technically
a YEC then almost a YEC but absolutely not a TE.

"We are compelled to believe in a God who is above His creation and who can
intervene supernaturally whenever, wherever and however He pleases. Most of
His interventions today are quiet. So quiet, in fact, that some might
consider world events merely as natural forces producing their predictable
physics. Only careful observers see His hand. We are dealing with a God
who silently 'hides himself' (Isaiah 45:15)."


My only comment: those TEs who like the QDA view (quantum divine action)
are motivated by a similar concern. Contrary to what is often said or
implied, they are not denying that God sometimes work genuine miracles (that
would in some cases go well beyond QDA) and they are not picking a view to
retain academic prestige. Rather, they really believe that virtually all
divine activity is pretty subtle, while at the same time they want to uphold
the orthodox belief in a God who acts--who acts all the time, all over the

Whatever else we might say about that view, we need to keep this in mind.


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Received on Thu May 7 15:27:41 2009

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