Re: [asa] Is God a big meanie?

From: Bethany Sollereder <>
Date: Tue May 05 2009 - 14:53:21 EDT


We could also add to this the fact that eternal life would only be "nice" if
it was coupled with eternal youth. A world where we grew older and older
and never died would not be paradise - it would be a living nightmare.
Also, without death (at least at the cellular level) there would be no
apoptosis (the regulated death of cells). Without this, not only could we
not develop since the differentiation of our body parts is reliant upon
apoptosis for separating fingers, arms, legs, etc. but our cells would all
be cancerous. One of the prime characteristics of cancer cells is their
"immortality", or lack of apoptosis. They grow without limit.

As for pain and its goodness, one should remember that leprosy is simply the
killing of pain nerves. Leprosy is commonly understood as a flesh-eating
disease, but this is a mistake. It simply deadens pain sensations, and the
people rip their own bodies to pieces by not being able to heed the warning
signs pain gives. It makes one wonder about the wisdom of our cultural love
for pain killers...


On Tue, May 5, 2009 at 11:32 AM, D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>wrote:

> Bernie,
> Your notion of natural evil seems to amount to anything found unpleasant.
> But think for a minute about a world without death. Consider one
> bacterium, small, but dividing twice an hour. That's about 2^17500 alive
> at the end of one year. I don't know the volume, but I figure it would
> slime up the world rather quickly. The only way to avoid this is to have
> a static world without reproduction.
> A different claim is that the children, at least, should not die or be
> hurt seriously. How do you arrange the laws of physics so that there is
> no injury when a child runs into the street after a ball with a car
> approaching at normal speed? At what age would injury or death be allowed
> to avoid a totally static world?
> The desire for no pain is as silly, for pain signals that something is
> wrong. If a broken bone didn't hurt, how could it get a chance to heal?
> Maybe you can figure out a way for the ends to snap together as soon as
> they lined up.
> Seems to me that those who think that a good world would have neither
> pain nor death have not thought the matter through.
> Dave (ASA)
> On Tue, 5 May 2009 08:51:01 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
> <> writes:
> > I was thinking about "the problem of evil" when eating my pear. It
> > was yummy.
> >
> > Atheists say that if God was all powerful and all loving, there
> > wouldn't be any evil in the world, like animal suffering. I was
> > thinking- what are the design options for God when it comes to food?
> >
> > Since killing (and the associated pain) is evil, that means we could
> > have no meat- no hamburgers. I guess we'd all have to be
> > vegetarians, because vegetables aren't sentient and they don't feel
> > pain. But if God chose evolution to create humans, then there would
> > also be lower animals. Without carnivores, maybe (actually, for
> > sure, not maybe...) these animals would get out-of-balance and
> > destroy/over-run everything. In other words, the stock needs to be
> > thinned, and that's why evolution does that- with carnivores.
> >
> > The only alternative to evolution is fiat- where God makes things...
> > "poof" into existence. The problem with that is we would have no
> > notion of science. We could not trust and use our senses, because
> > God so frequently violates natural law. The law of cause-and-effect
> > law is busted because it is routinely violated by God.
> >
> > So in a perfect world, God would create by fiat, but that would
> > demolish modern science (and the natural record)... so it's not
> > really perfect. God couldn't have used evolution while omitting
> > carnivores, because carnivores are needed for the system to
> > self-correct.
> >
> > Thoughts? (...besides the obvious remarks about my cheeky writing
> > ;-)
> >
> > ...Bernie
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe, send a message to with
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> >
> >
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Received on Tue May 5 14:54:31 2009

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