resurrection (was Re: [asa] Because of us)

From: George Murphy <>
Date: Wed Apr 29 2009 - 11:02:58 EDT

The question that Burgy poses about the resurrection & cannibalism is a very old one - At least one Christian apologist of the 2d century tried to deal with it. It's not just a theological matter because it poses an obstacle to organ donation for some people. I dealt with (I do not say "solved") the issue of material identity and resurrection of the body some years ago ["Quantum Theory and Resurrection Reality" (CTNS Bulletin 11, 25, 1991)]. It's not online & I no longer have the computer file but I'll be glad to send a copy via snailmail to anyone interested. (I also summarized this in The Cosmos in the Light of the Cross, pp.155-156.)


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: David Clounch
  To: ASA List
  Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 10:39 AM
  Subject: Fwd: [asa] Because of us

  ---------- Forwarded message ----------
  From: David Clounch <>
  Date: Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [asa] Because of us
  To: "John Burgeson (ASA member)" <>


  And what about my relatives who have been cremated? My "mom-in-a-box" who now resides in my basement?

  BTW, John, since we are kidding around, let me mention while my branch of the family is white we have black cousins, at least in name, but the white side of the family is in general very very racist. So when looking for where to bury mom I had thought maybe of putting her in the family plot of my black cousins? So she went to sleep in California but at the resurrection she would pop out of the ground surrounded by YIPES! Black Kansans! Wouldn't that freak her out? hahahahahaha. First thing she'd say is "where the hell am I?" Yeah, it would be my ultimate revenge upon her. Well, it could be worse, the other choice is she pops up with a bunch of Vikings! :)

  But what I was trying to get at is "Providence". Resurrection is part of Providence. Millions of Christians believe Jesus Christ will physically return and the dead will be raised. Deistic-Christians probably don't believe this. I don't know what they believe other than some gnostic sort of "we all become ghosts and float to heaven". Whatever heaven is. I really cant say what they believe except probably that the universe just proceeds on for billions of years like it always did. I'd be interested in hearing what they think their personal fate is in that type of universe.
  Plus what is the fate of Jesus Christ Himself in that type of universe?

  Did I mention the other part of the Providential Second Advent, where Jesus rules the earth, overthrowing the human governments?

  Deistic Christianity (I am just guessing) probably rejects this, among various other acts of Providence.
  I myself reject deistic christianity. Its a different religion than I believe in.

  I don't want to say I don't think God is supernatural. BUT, I believe God is Spirit, and I see no reason that spirit cannot push particles around and manipulate the electromagnetic force. And I don't see this action as violating George Murphy's MN any more than the actions of any human would do so. How does a human do anything? By electromagnetic forces, of course.

  So the whole conversation about actions of God don't take place because they are by definition "supernatural" is way off base (to me). Its based on a certain set of religious ideas to which I don't subscribe.

  Jesus showed us God can be both transcendant *and* physical. Deistic Christians want to say God cannot be physical because God is 100% supernatural. I don't believe this.

  Best Regards,
  David Clounch


  On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 2:43 PM, John Burgeson (ASA member) <> wrote:

    On 4/27/09, David Clounch <> wrote:
> Gentlemen,

> Along with this stoppage there will be a physical resurrection (of a lot of
> dead people). In a way it could be said to be the ultimate ID-type event.
> One moment there will be a pile of chemical sludge in each grave. The
> result of rotting. The next moment there will be one trillion working
> cells.

    Wow. Of course, if Julius Caesar is one of these, there would be a lot
    more than 1 trillion cells to his new body.

    Better get out the shovels for a lot of grave digging unless these new
    bodies have the strength to break out on their own!

    What about a member of the Donner party who ate his companion? Who
    gets the residue?


  I often suffer from nostalgia, that fondness for something that never was. Pleasant memories have a tendency to expand.

  I often suffer from nostalgia, that fondness for something that never was. Pleasant memories have a tendency to expand.

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Received on Wed Apr 29 11:03:34 2009

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