Re: [asa] ID/Miracles/Design (Behe vs. Behe)

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Wed Apr 29 2009 - 10:54:15 EDT

Hi Gregory, you wrote:


>Why don't you write more about 'good, theistic naturalists' and drop the
sarcasm, Dick? Otherwise it might appear that you are indeed defending
'evil, atheistic naturalists' on 'purely scientific grounds'. Some balance
would be helpful here.<


I need that tongue-in-cheek sign, Gregory. At the last, brief, face-to-face
talk I had with Mike Behe I brought up my suggested poster child for ID -
the mosquito. Here is a prime example of a creature that is just as
impressive in every respect as the bacteria flagellum and everyone can see
it with the naked eye. Who has seen a flagellum? The mosquito is
especially equipped for what mosquitoes do, bite their victims and spread
diseases that often result in death.


She (only females drink blood) has a nice light body and she can beat her
wings virtually soundlessly so she can light on your flesh without your
noticing it. She has a needle-sharp nose that can penetrate your skin
without tripping your nerves. Then the neat part. She has a chemical
additive in her saliva that keeps the blood from coagulating and clogging
her nose up. Now, how did an anti-coagulating chemical become part of her
biological repertoire? TEs can answer that


So here's what I'm getting at. If you are going to claim one biological
feature of an organism as a sign from God then claim them all. If you feel
there are some things that need to be brushed under the carpet then you
probably have a bad theory.


>You are being outmanoeuvered philosophically and displaying nothing of your
knowledge of history in the discussion, which could surely help. I don't see
anything other than ideological piggybacking going on now with your tack and
the tone is also doubtful, as Iain indicated. Your position is a strong one,
historically, but trying to merge it with 'TE' or 'MN' would seem to be a
detriment to it rather than a benefit.<


Hey, you all can feel free to maneuver in there if you want. There are not
a lot of bashful people on this list.


Science and history have similar elements. Data and evidence are applicable
to each. But history just is, or was. Jon Meecham won a Pulitzer Prize for
his book on Andrew Jackson. No personal interviews took place with anybody
who ever knew him. So he had to glean his material from books, articles,
personal letters, etc., just as I had to do. Then put the material in order
and make it interesting. Neither he nor I laid our hands on every
conceivable document. There are time constraints. But what we both owe our
readers is honesty in our work.


Let's say you wanted to do an article about Henry Ford and you had this
quote: "If there is any one secret of success, it lies in the ability to get
the other person's point of view and see things from that person's angle as
well as from your own." On the basis of this quote you might have the
impression that Henry sought to find out what people wanted and that their
wants and needs mattered to him. That could be the cornerstone of your
article, "Henry Ford Cared." But after your article is nearing completion
you also discover that when he it was suggested to him he offer his cars in
various colors as his competitors did, he retorted, "Any color - so long as
it's black."


Now you have choices. Consider it an anomaly and publish your article
without mentioning it. Change your article to something like, "The
Complicated Henry Ford." Decide to not publish anything. But a person's
own honest and integrity bears upon that decision. How much more should it
be a factor when we are dragging the God of the universe into the argument?


The point I'm trying to make is that ID as I see it is disingenous at best
and dishonest at worst. Christians need to be consistent and honest with
the material. If God designed the flagellum then he designed the mosquito.
If the mosquito is an accident of nature then so is the flagellum. If good,
functioning, workable "designs" are due to God's handiwork, then who or what
is responsible for the flaws, defects and failures? Give God all the
responsibilty or none of it.


Dick Fischer, author, lecturer

Historical Genesis from Adam to Abraham


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Received on Wed Apr 29 10:54:34 2009

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