Re: [asa] restatement on ID as a "proof" of God (defense of Behe)

From: Gregory Arago <>
Date: Wed Apr 29 2009 - 10:00:25 EDT

Hi Ted,
Now if only TEists and ECists would pull up their boots (have some courage) and criticise 'Darwinism' as an 'ideology' and *NOT* as a science, then we'd have some progress, wouldn't we Ted? I've even been responded to by people on this list equating 'Darwinism' with 'evolutionary biology.' They see no difference - this is completely absurd! With such a perspective, 'Darwinism' (as ideology) simply cannot ever be criticised by TEists or ECists.
Are there natural-physical scientists in America that don't know what 'ideology' even means?
There is really nothing wrong with TEists and ECists speaking pejoratively about 'Darwinism' just like both YECs and IDists do because the 'ideology' of Darwinism is indeed highly problematic and a threat to religions of all kinds. Darwin himself claimed to be 'agnostic' and refused to discuss religion in public, especially in his later years. The latter is a secularising behaviour in itself.
I've been interested in 'origins' issues for more than a decade myself, Ted (and I'm a comparatively young man than most on this ASA list). Let me assure you that the 'origins' I'm interested in differ respectively from those that natural-physical scientists 'investigate'. But I'm afraid you're still stuck on the natural-physical side of 'what science means,' Ted. This demonstrates an imbalance that I would gladly see you correct in your history of science and theology contributions.  

--- On Wed, 4/29/09, Ted Davis <> wrote:

From: Ted Davis <>
Subject: Re: [asa] restatement on ID as a "proof" of God (defense of Behe)
To:, "Schwarzwald" <>
Received: Wednesday, April 29, 2009, 5:09 PM

Let me point out that, in my experience (for decades) in working through and
with origins issues, the reason many and perhaps most TEs come down so hard
on YEC, and some of them also come down hard on ID, is b/c they know from
their own experiences or those of friends that the YEC position, if
inculcated into youth, can itself cause extremely serious spiritual problems
for those youth when they get out from under that YEC umbrella. The tone of
ID concerning "Darwinism" in both scientific and cultural uses of
that term, which is a pejorative in both YEC and ID circles, is highly similar to that
of YEC at times, and this is a big reason why ID can receive the same
treatment from some TEs.

I would not underestimate this factor.

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Received on Wed Apr 29 10:01:02 2009

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