Re: [asa] biblical miracles

From: William Hamilton <>
Date: Sat Apr 25 2009 - 16:57:32 EDT

This is an excellent point, Moorad. One point the creationists neglect
or fail to recognize is that "all things" includes so-called random
phenomena. If we take the loose definition random = unpredictable,
then chaotic phenomena could be (mis)classified as random. Quantum
effects involve randomness. But to say any apparently random effect
is outside the sovereignty of God seems like heresy to me.
Understanding what another person is thinking or will do in given
circumstances is difficult -- impossible in many instances.
Understanding how the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe
acts is truly impossible.

On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 7:45 AM, Alexanian, Moorad <> wrote:
> What does “intervention” means vis-à-vis “…upholds all things by the word of His power...?” Heb. 1:3.  Therefore, at least, God gives existence to the whole of reality. However, is that all He does? I believe that He does more, but we cannot measure, in the sense of science, how much more. We must live with that mystery.
> Moorad
> ________________________________________
> From: [] On Behalf Of Ted Davis []
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:10 PM
> To:
> Subject: [asa] biblical miracles
> I sent this a moment ago to Cameron, but neglected to send it to the list.
> I'm bowing out of this one for the time being, unless Cameron and/or others
> want to discuss any of the points I raised in my other posts, points
> unrelated directly to "intervention."  I do think Cameron's questions are
> good ones, but I don't accept the validity of any comparisons without having
> answers to the same questions from some ID proponents (whether or not they
> are ASA members, as many are).
> Cameron,
> I hate to disappoint you, but I'm sticking with my promise not to discuss
> "intervention" until you can place, or arrange for others to place, some
> first-hand statements from ID advocates (including some big names) answering
> similar questions.  So, I won't go into this further right now: I was
> serious about that point.  If others wish to answer your questions related
> to "intervention," of course, that's fine.
> The most I will say is that I do not reject the term or the concept of
> "intervention," but I understand why many TEs do have reservations about it.
>  It has to do with divine immanence vs transcendence, and you can probably
> fill in the gaps.  Go see Richard Bube's famous article about "the Failure
> of the God-of-the-gaps" for specifics.  That's all I will now say about this
> thread until I see what my friends in the ID movement say about some of the
> more curious miracle stories.
> Like the late Bernard Ramm, the way in which I think about some of them,
> including the exodus events, is to explore diverse possibilities including
> genuinely miraculous acts--which God has done and will do again.
> My best, Cameron,
> Ted
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William E (Bill) Hamilton Jr., Ph.D.
Member American Scientific Affiliation
Austin, TX
248 821 8156
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Received on Sat Apr 25 16:58:07 2009

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