RE: [asa] biblical miracles

From: wjp <>
Date: Sat Apr 25 2009 - 09:37:24 EDT


In the NT we have the Incarnate God that lives and dwells among us.
In the OT we have at least something similar. God is intimately
involved in the affairs of men, both naturally (sending famines and
drought) and through nations (Babylon). Read, for example, Habakkuk
chapter 1, or Amos 4. Outside of the Gospels and Revelation, the NT
often appears Bloodless and "theological" when compared to the OT,
and esp. the Prophets.

I remember when a fire came through our town, wiping out 400 homes,
threatening more, and evacuating 30,000 people that I was reading
Calvin. Calvin believes that God is at work in all the affairs of the
world at all times, including the fire that came against us, even that
which took one persons home and not the one next to it.

Reading the OT, one can more easily adopt such a view.
BTW, I have no trouble with adopting such a view even in the light of
the evil associated with it. Indeed, it was the theme of the Prophets.


On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 08:45:30 -0400, "Alexanian, Moorad" <> wrote:
> What does “intervention” means vis-à-vis “…upholds all things by
> the word of His power...?” Heb. 1:3. Therefore, at least, God gives
> existence to the whole of reality. However, is that all He does? I believe
> that He does more, but we cannot measure, in the sense of science, how much
> more. We must live with that mystery.
> Moorad
> ________________________________________
> From: [] On Behalf Of
> Ted Davis []
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:10 PM
> To:
> Subject: [asa] biblical miracles
> I sent this a moment ago to Cameron, but neglected to send it to the list.
> I'm bowing out of this one for the time being, unless Cameron and/or
> others
> want to discuss any of the points I raised in my other posts, points
> unrelated directly to "intervention." I do think Cameron's questions are
> good ones, but I don't accept the validity of any comparisons without
> having
> answers to the same questions from some ID proponents (whether or not they
> are ASA members, as many are).
> Cameron,
> I hate to disappoint you, but I'm sticking with my promise not to discuss
> "intervention" until you can place, or arrange for others to place, some
> first-hand statements from ID advocates (including some big names)
> answering
> similar questions. So, I won't go into this further right now: I was
> serious about that point. If others wish to answer your questions related
> to "intervention," of course, that's fine.
> The most I will say is that I do not reject the term or the concept of
> "intervention," but I understand why many TEs do have reservations about
> it.
> It has to do with divine immanence vs transcendence, and you can probably
> fill in the gaps. Go see Richard Bube's famous article about "the Failure
> of the God-of-the-gaps" for specifics. That's all I will now say about
> this
> thread until I see what my friends in the ID movement say about some of
> the
> more curious miracle stories.
> Like the late Bernard Ramm, the way in which I think about some of them,
> including the exodus events, is to explore diverse possibilities including
> genuinely miraculous acts--which God has done and will do again.
> My best, Cameron,
> Ted
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Received on Sat Apr 25 09:37:57 2009

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