Re: [asa] God disproven by science?

From: Freeman, Louise Margaret <>
Date: Tue Apr 21 2009 - 20:50:11 EDT

I know. That was the one Bible verse I put in my slide show. ;)

Louise M. Freeman, PhD

Psychology Dept

Mary Baldwin College

Staunton, VA 24401


FAX 540-887-7121

-----Original Message-----

From: "George Murphy" <>

To: "Freeman, Louise Margaret" <>, <>

Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 20:45:42 -0400

Subject: Re: [asa] God disproven by science?

The fundamental problem with doing scientific
studies on prayer is that they violate the command "You shall not put the
your God to the test" (Dt.6:13).



----- Original Message -----
  Freeman, Louise
  Margaret []
To: []
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 5:20
Subject: Re: [asa] God disproven by
Having twice lectured on the topic of prayer studies (along with
  Bible codes and near0death experiences) to our college's science and
  honors colloquium, I'd have to agree with your speaker regarding evidence
  from clinical trials of intercessory prayer: effects are modest at best,
  not frequently replicated and no large, well-controlled study has
  shown any effect on death rate, presumably one of the measures the
  patients and pray-ers care most about.

For me, the major problem with trying to investigate prayer in a clinical
  setting as you would, for instance, a drug, is that the physical mechanism
  which the drug works (known or unknown) implies that the effects will be
  repeatable. If the same bacteria is in physiologically similar patients,
  the same dose of antibiotic should be similarly effective in killing it.
  God, as a presumably free-will agent operating through an unknown physical
  perhaps unknowable "supernatural") mechanism can choose to answer
  prayer differently even if circumstances, from our human perspective,
  are practically identical for both patients and petitioners.

Or, as one of the students put it last spring, "if I were God
  and people were doing a prayer study with me, I'd just mess with them!"

Any more here might cross the line into "essay" , but if anyone is
  interested in my lecture notes or Powerpoint slides I am happy to share.

Louise M. Freeman, PhD
Psychology Dept
Mary Baldwin College
Staunton, VA 24401
FAX 540-887-7121

From: "Dehler, Bernie" <>
Cc: "" <>
Date: Tue, 21
    Apr 2009 12:55:14 -0700
Subject: [asa] God disproven by science?

At my next meeting an atheist
    (former Christian) will try to explain why the Christian God (not deism)
    be disproved. His main argument is that if such a God really existed,
    we'd see the marks in real life, but there is no detectable supernatural

    intervention. For example, studies show that prayer has no effect on
    healing what-so-ever (any study to the contrary is scientifically
flawed, he
And short comments to that (no
    essays please)?
The flip-side I see is that if
    there was scientific evidence for God, then it would no longer be a
    of faith. So there's no way you can have both faith and science,
    unless science is unable to test the hypothesis. If the hypothesis is
    that God answers prayer, the claim is that the statement can be
    scientifically proven false through studies.
I suppose thereā€˜s the argument
    for changed lives- by the power of God. But still- what about prayer
    for healing?
(James 5:15 ISV)And the prayer offered in faith
    will save the person who is sick. The Lord will raise him up, and if he
    committed any sins, he will be forgiven.

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Apr 21 20:50:46 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Apr 21 2009 - 20:50:46 EDT