Re: [asa] A Good Friday Question

From: Merv Bitikofer <>
Date: Sat Apr 11 2009 - 09:38:15 EDT

"For you are dust, and to dust you shall return." (some faster than
others in the case of cremation.)

Jesus doesn't seem to have taught that our immediate physical fates
became suddenly different than what they had always been, though, as we
celebrate tomorrow, our *final* physical fates are now redeemed thanks
to what He did. Perhaps this is more an argument from silence, but I
don't see any scriptural reason to think that the Genesis passage was
repealed. Just given a new ending.

p.s. Of course, Jesus also makes no commentary on the wailing psalms
(like 88) where the psalmist in despair laments that he is like the
'slain in the grave, whom God remembers no more...' and asks whether or
not the dead rise up to praise God; probably presuming a negative answer
for the purpose of his complaint. And Jesus was no stranger to the
literature. "My God, My God, why ..."

George Murphy wrote:
> I Peter 3:18-20 (possibly connected with 4:6) _may_ be relevant here.
> Note, however, that it speaks of what Christ did when "made alive in
> the spirit."
> The Apostles Creed says that Jesus "was crucified, died, and was
> buried. /Descendit ad inferna/. On the third day he rose again."
> The middle phrase was the last to be added to the creed & its
> translation is debated. The traditional version is "He descended into
> hell," while the International Consultation on English Texts
> recommended "He descended to the dead." Whether or not the I Peter
> text supports either version is open to some question. (Note that it
> does not use the imagery of "descent.")
> If the creed is read as "descended to the dead" then it says that
> Jesus shared the common fate of all people - a non-trivial statement.
> But it does not say anything about the condition of the dead. Even
> less does the creed say anything about this condition if it is read as
> "descended into hell." & there is even less reason to be dogmatic
> about the condition of the penitent thief. In general, scripture
> tells us a lot less about the human condition between death and
> resurrection than we would like it to, and speculations about souls
> being up in heaven waiting to be reunited with their bodies are just
> that, speculations.
> There has been a good deal of discussion among theologians recently on
> Christ's "descent." I'll give references if any are interested.
> Shalom
> George
> <>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Don Winterstein <>
> *To:* ASA <> ; Dick Fischer
> <>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 11, 2009 1:17 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [asa] A Good Friday Question
> Jesus was dead in his grave, the thief was dead somewhere else.
> "Today" meant the same thing it means to all in final throes of
> death, namely, "the next thing you know." Why make a mystery
> out of this? Resurrection is mystery enough.
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Dick Fischer <>
> *To:* ASA <>
> *Sent:* Friday, April 10, 2009 6:42 PM
> *Subject:* [asa] A Good Friday Question
> We all know the story of the thief on the cross. He was told,
> ". today you will be with me in paradise".(Luke 23:43). That
> day was Friday when Jesus died. Three days later Jesus was
> resurrected. After the resurrection Jesus told Mary, "Do not
> hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father"
> (John 20:17). So where was Jesus and where did the thief go
> when they both died on that Friday?
> Dick Fischer, GPA president
> Genesis Proclaimed Association
> "Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"
> <>

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Received on Sat Apr 11 09:38:45 2009

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