Re: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Mon Mar 30 2009 - 16:35:57 EDT

How do you prove that there is objective reality? Solipsism is possible.
But nobody (at least nobody who is trying to communicate) believe that
(s)he alone exists, with everything perceived merely their imagination.
Note that there is also the common assumption that the world is as we
perceive it. I know of a man, living in Hawaii, who was asked by his wife
to get her a hibiscus to wear Hawaiian style. He looked out the door and
reported that there were none. She looked out and saw a long hedge
covered with brilliant red blossoms. He was colorblind. Naive realism
leads to problems.
Dave (ASA)

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 14:48:18 -0500 David Clounch
<> writes:

George is correct that we can not prove YEC wrong because there is the
possibility that the universe was made very recently.

I'm sorry, I must object. When George said it he could have meant he was
describing a philosophical position that is contrary to objective
reality. Describing the position doesn't necessarily mean he believes
that position. The position, as far as I know, is entirely counter to
all of science. Science assumes physical phenomena extend in both
directions in time in a continuous differentiable fashion. A major
discontinuity in physical laws is outside of and contrary to physics.
  It is an absurd metaphysics that is more bizarre than all the nutty
ideas physicists have dreamed up about the origin of the universe and
grand unified theories and the multiverse and all that jazz. Next we
will be told that if Taoist monks can write down the nine billion names
of God then the universe will dissolve.

Philosophers of science Laudin and Quinn wrote in Mike Ruse's collection
why creationism is science...they argue it is because creationism can be
proven wrong and the theory evolves with tentative conclusions, etc, etc.
So George is correct that YEC is not by definition wrong. But the reason
isn't because the universe could have been created a millisecond ago.
This latter idea is insane.


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Received on Mon Mar 30 16:44:35 2009

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