Re: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Mon Mar 30 2009 - 10:25:58 EDT

Hmmm. I am surprised and disappointed. Most Christians I know are OEC,
meaning old universe, old earth. But I'm not sure why there isn't a robust
set believers in old universe, young earth. It must have something to do
with hermeneutics. Why does the theology have to always be young universe,
young earth?

I was hoping the YEC movement had dealt with the objective reality issue
instead of demanding intellectual suicide as a plank in their platform. I
was hoping there was a YEC answer to the issue. But can it be the case that
denial is how the movement actually handles it?

But, it seems to me what YEC's are really doing with denial of objective
reality is
denial of the Christian naturalism that Stephen M. Barr points out in his
One must keep in mind that naturalism was invented by Christianity in order
to repudiate pagan cultures in support of The One God who created
regularity, law, and mechanism in nature. One would think only pagans would
argue against Christian naturalism.

This is an interesting aspect of the sociological study of Christianity.

This is painful for me personally. I almost cannot stomach going into a
church and rubbing shoulders with people who go "truth, truth, truth, truth,
BIG LIE, truth, truth". And when you call them on the big lie they start
saying you aren't really a Christian. One doesn't know if one can believe
anything anybody says in church. For the record I hang at General Baptist
Convention churches and used to attend a Conservative Baptist Convention
church and before that the Evangelical Free Church (actually Chuck
Swindoll's church on Malvern).

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:44 AM, Ted Davis <> wrote:

> >>> David Clounch <> 3/29/2009 7:58 PM >>> asks:
> One must ask, is there a form of YEC that teaches that the earth is young
> but the universe old? That seems to be the only chance YEC has of being
> congruent with objective reality.
> ***
> Ted replies:
> Yes, but it's not the AIG or CRS variety. The variant is known as the
> "young biosphere" view. I have met electronically only one or two
> proponents, but they do exist. Interestingly, one early proponent was
> George McCready Price, who at one point (around the Second World War, if I
> recall correctly) that the universe might be perhaps 100,000 years old but
> that life was only a few thousand years old. Obviously that won't do it,
> and neither will any other young biosphere view since the science calls for
> millions of years of large organisms--"nephesh creatures," as the YECs like
> to call them--who antedate our arrival on the earth and thus go against the
> fundamental belief of no death prior to the fall.
> Ted

I often suffer from nostalgia, that fondness for something that never was.
Pleasant memories have a tendency to expand.
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Received on Mon Mar 30 10:26:27 2009

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