Re: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning

From: wjp <>
Date: Mon Mar 30 2009 - 09:52:41 EDT


I see from the other end: many people leave the church because they come
to trust evolutionary science, etc. more than the authority of Scripture.
It is simply more "sensible" to join the modern view and sweep the entire
thing into the dust bin (e.g., Dawkins, etc.)

It may be that there are some (like many here) that have found a home in
Christianity and in modern scientific derivatives, but at least in the West
that is far from the case.

Modern science, even for those here, has "radically" altered Christianity, or
so it seems to me. That does not mean it cannot survive. It always survives
by a sheer thread, perhaps it just seems more so in one's own life.


On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 22:01:24 +0900, dawson wayne <> wrote:
> 2009/3/30 wjp <>
>> 2) Wayne I appreciate your attitude more than most. But I've still got
> a
>> bone
>> to pick with you, the same bone I'm picking on with everyone. You argue
>> that a person who believes in an old world and evolutionary theory as
>> presently
>> construed and is "committed to Christ" can serve as a witness to the
>> possibility
>> of conjoining the two, something the YEC fears is not possible, or not
>> easily balanced. I suggest, however, that you presume too much.
> History
>> has
>> admirably demonstrated that the intentions of the fathers are worked out
> in
>> detail by their children. Perhaps it is possible for this to be true of
>> you,
>> and yet that in succeeding generations it will be found to demolish
>> Christianity.
>> This is certainly what the like of Dawkins believes.
> Many churches are already well on the decline. Having been converted as
> an
> adult, I can say that a major reason (in my case at least and to many
> people
> of similar education) is because YEC made the church seem embarrassingly
> idiotic and possibly deranged. Most of the people I have to deal with
> don't
> have any reason to question the general conclusions of science on the age
> of
> the earth. Moreover, to many people (including myself at that time),
> Christianity and YEC were equivalent. Naturally, when I became a
> Christian,
> that was exactly the kind of reaction and attitude I had to contend with.
> The younger generation has less and less need for such irrelevancies, and
> so
> they turn elsewhere, including Dawkins; though his
> "take-it-on-the-chin-science/philosophy" is probably mainly appealing to
> some scientific types not so different in training from myself.
> At least some churches that really are growing tend not to divide the
> church
> so much with YEC/OEC issues. As far as I can tell, Rick Warren leads one
> of
> them. I also recently read a book "The Reason For God" by Timothy Keller;
> he does not speak well of YEC, and he runs quite a megachurch in New York
> City; the last place on earth where anyone would expect a _church_ to
> prosper. It is certainly not the case that a church grows (or dies) as a
> function of its leanings toward (or away from) YEC. In fact, YEC may
> ultimately succeed more at thoroughly demolishing most of the church.
> I think the whole effort at division undermines the gospel. It is just
> one
> more way to become distracted from living a life of repentance; as if we
> didn't have plenty of other more important and difficult things to learn
> about living a Christian life.
> by Grace we proceed,
> Wayne

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Received on Mon Mar 30 09:53:27 2009

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