Re: [asa] Yes -- the YECs are still winning

From: wjp <>
Date: Mon Mar 30 2009 - 01:07:08 EDT

Bernie & Wayne:

Two points.

1) Bernie you're crazy. No one I know gives a rip about the ASA, even if they
have heard about them. The ASA's position would have no affect upon anyone.
What will have more affect is an individual within a given church. But the
ASA as an organization is irrelevant except to people in ASA.

2) Wayne I appreciate your attitude more than most. But I've still got a bone
to pick with you, the same bone I'm picking on with everyone. You argue
that a person who believes in an old world and evolutionary theory as presently
construed and is "committed to Christ" can serve as a witness to the possibility
of conjoining the two, something the YEC fears is not possible, or not
easily balanced. I suggest, however, that you presume too much. History has
admirably demonstrated that the intentions of the fathers are worked out in
detail by their children. Perhaps it is possible for this to be true of you,
and yet that in succeeding generations it will be found to demolish Christianity.
This is certainly what the like of Dawkins believes.

bill powers

On Mon, 30 Mar 2009 11:18:01 +0900, dawson wayne <> wrote:
> 2009/2/7 Dehler, Bernie <>
>> Bottom line- if this is a science group- then why tolerate those who
> reject
>> the obvious science of an ancient earth? It is a travesty to science,
> just
>> as accepting a Mormon would violate the Christian aspect. Why is the
>> Christian aspect being upheld so dutifully but not the science side?
>> I think the ASA may be maturing to now take this step. It is experience
> in
>> the ASA dealing with these issues as well as new DNA evidence that can
> now
>> make the ASA secure in a wholesale rejection of a young earth. (When
>> was new and younger, it had to "find itself." Now a lot of water has
>> traveled under the bridge and things are better known.) If the ASA were
> to
>> reject a young earth, it could send shock waves through the church- but
> that
>> would be good. The corresponding rubble is deserved. Churches will be
>> slapped-in-the-face (or have cold-water thrown on them) to wake them up.
> I also feel a lot of emotional frustration and hand wringing when Burgy
> sends these "reminders". Even without them, I can recall times where
> I start wondering why I even put up with church at all some days.
> However, may ask how many of us really participate actively and
> prominently
> in the church as servants. How may of us intellectuals actually serve in
> the day to day operations of the church. Do we even go there and replace
> a
> few broken light bulbs. I grant, we often have day time jobs and
> responsibilities that are hard to control. It seems that something gets
> sacrificed. Even teaching an evening bible study is something that we can
> do. How dedicately we serve does mean something in the eyes of the
> leadership in a church.
> We cannot easily change the stance of YECs, but active service is
> something
> that anyone can see. If they see our commitment to Christ, maybe they
> will
> realize that there are other ways to understand that small part scripture
> that seems to disrupt and distract everyone from the real message of
> scripture. We don't have to beat people over the head with books and
> facts, what is most likely to chance people's view is seeing how the Lord
> is
> working in us. At minimum, I find that they become more cautious and
> considerate about what they say. The problem seems to be more that people
> are mislead into thinking that evolution denies faith and that if it is
> true, the bible is false. If they know our hearts are commited to
> Christ, they certainly cannot say that.
> by Grace we proceed,
> Wayne

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Received on Mon Mar 30 01:07:46 2009

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