RE: [asa] scientific fact vs. ideology?

From: Dehler, Bernie <bernie.dehler@intel.com>
Date: Wed Mar 18 2009 - 12:38:49 EDT

Since "idiots" refers to people, is that saying computers are like people? ;-)

...Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Alexanian, Moorad
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:56 AM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] scientific fact vs. ideology?

Bernie Alder who pioneered computer simulations of hard disks and spheres and established, as he would say, "experimentally" the existence of a solid-fluid transition said to me that "computers are fast idiots."

Moorad

-----Original Message-----
From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 11:47 AM
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: RE: [asa] scientific fact vs. ideology?

" As I recall, Hawking noted that the most advanced computers do not have the intelligence of an earthworm."

That's a strange comment. Computers can do complex calculations, build cars, etc... much more than an earthworm could dream about...

Article about thinking computers:
"IBM to Build "Thinking" Computers Modeled on the Brain"
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2008/11/21/ibm-to-build-thinking-computers-modeled-on-the-brain/

Excerpt:
Modha says scientists have already created computers that rival the mental abilities of rats, but the new "thinking" computers will aim for the intelligence of cats.

,,,Bernie

-----Original Message-----
From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 7:52 PM
To: Dehler, Bernie
Cc: asa@calvin.edu
Subject: Re: [asa] scientific fact vs. ideology?

There is no "me" in the computer. As I recall, Hawking noted that the
most advanced computers do not have the intelligence of an earthworm. It
may be slightly better now, for computers have been improved over the
decade or so. But there is no cogito with any creature much more advanced
than an earthworm.

Note that responding to an address is not recognition of existence.
Dave (ASA)

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 16:40:16 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
<bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
> "A computer can check an incoming address and determine that it's its
> call or requires another to respond, but there isn't an "it's me"
> understanding. The process is "mechanical," not personal."
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by that.
>
> How does a human understand "me" differently than a computer? They
> are each both recognizing their own existence.
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. [mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: Dehler, Bernie
> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: [asa] scientific fact vs. ideology?
>
> Self-awareness is implicit in the famous cogito and Augustine's
> earlier
> recognition that the most extreme doubter cannot doubt that he
> exists.
> One does not have to think deep philosophical thoughts to be
> self-aware.
> It's implicit in the tale of the sweet young thing who went into a
> bank
> to cash a check. When the teller asked, "Can you identify yourself?"
> she
> pulled out a compact, looked in the mirror and declared, "Yes, it's
> me."
>
> A computer can check an incoming address and determine that it's its
> call
> or requires another to respond, but there isn't an "it's me"
> understanding. The process is "mechanical," not personal.
> Dave (ASA)
>
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:41:26 -0700 "Dehler, Bernie"
> <bernie.dehler@intel.com> writes:
> > What is an example of a behavior in humans that shows that one is
> > 'self aware?' Then we can see if it applies to computers. We can
>
> > also see if all humans are 'self aware' by that same example. For
>
> > example, if wondering "who am I?" is an example of being 'self
> > aware,' not all humans are concerned with it, so does that mean
> they
> > aren't 'self-aware?'
> >
> > ...Bernie
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> Digital Photography - Click Now.
> L2141/fc/BLSrjpTDvmS3wFXPyXU8UjF7RcGHf93NyZpgxZokoyx4CNisALtOLJO64SU/
>
>
> To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
>
>
____________________________________________________________
Click here for great prices on accurate, reliable blood pressure monitors!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTNHzvSNi9LqQ3ivD9XslLdz7X7o758yDAXeuFwKCEoUNcKvYC3vVG/

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to majordomo@calvin.edu with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Wed Mar 18 12:39:34 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Mar 18 2009 - 12:39:34 EDT