Re: [asa] Adios, ASA List

From: David Clounch <>
Date: Tue Mar 17 2009 - 11:18:54 EDT


Thank you. I totally agree.
I find myself wishing the folks on the ASA list would champion the Bill of
Rights more often. Or the principles thereof, or the spirit thereof.
Instead what I've seen is "lets find the right answer" followed by "lets
bash everybody who doesn't have the right answer".
David Opderbeck gave me hope that he was at least one person who
recognized that preserving civil liberties and freedom of thought is more
important than arriving at any sort of correct theological viewpoint. I
think a civil libertarian would oppose shoving a theological viewpoint down
the throats of the masses. I see an attitude of intolerance on the list. I
felt David Opderbeck worked against that, and was refreshing. The ASA as
an organization must promote tolerance.

David Clounch

On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 9:53 PM, gordon brown <>wrote:

> I will miss your contributions, David. My views are usually closer to yours
> than to those of many others on this list. I wish we had a diversity on this
> list that is more typical of the ASA in general. I don't think that this
> list represents a typical cross section of ASA membership, and when someone
> who thinks he represents a minority view on the list leaves, the imbalance
> becomes worse.
> Concerning my impressions of the general ASA membership, I think that there
> are many who are not passionate about the origins issue and have other
> scientific interests that relate to their faith. It also appears that there
> are a number of participants on this list who are not members of the ASA. A
> nonmember who joins the list may think that he or she is the only outsider
> on the list and judges the ASA by what is said on the list. I wonder how
> many might be discouraged from joining because of this seeming lack of
> diversity.
> Gordon Brown (ASA member)
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009, David Opderbeck wrote:
> The recent discussion on this list about embryonic stem cell research has
>> finally pushed me over the edge. I'm tired of being belittled, ridiculed,
>> subjected to ad hominems, etc. every time I express an opinion that bears
>> even a whiff of a "conservative" or "traditional" approach to a Christian
>> worldview. I'm exhausted of having to defend the position that the Bible
>> really does communicate truth about human history and the human condition
>> in
>> some meaningful sense. I'm sick of the culture of suspicion and scoffing
>> that runs through our discourse. I need to break from the anger,
>> arrogance,
>> and self-indulgence of the flame wars that characterize this space.
>> In the past, I've defended the ASA and this email list against attacks by
>> various ID folks and others. I still don't think that all of the
>> criticisms
>> that have been levied against the ASA by those folks are fair. However, I
>> think they are right that the ASA, particularly as characterized by this
>> list, is hobbled by some kind of myopia. Yes, I know this list isn't
>> representative of the ASA in an absolute sense, but it's an ASA-sponsored
>> public discussion space, which is often a travesty. I've wasted too much
>> time on it, and it's become spiritually not only unproductive, but a
>> liability. Via con Dios.
>> David W. Opderbeck
>> Associate Professor of Law
>> Seton Hall University Law School
>> Director, Gibbons Institute of Law, Science & Technology
> To unsubscribe, send a message to with
> "unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.

To unsubscribe, send a message to with
"unsubscribe asa" (no quotes) as the body of the message.
Received on Tue Mar 17 11:19:29 2009

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Tue Mar 17 2009 - 11:19:29 EDT