Re: [asa] The Ultimate Question for Science

From: Jim Armstrong <jarmstro@qwest.net>
Date: Mon Mar 09 2009 - 19:28:27 EDT

These two options are offered from our own perspective, but it seems
quite possible that matter/energy are not the only alternatives from the
God perspective about which we know so little. The "transmutation" from
something in God's sphere of existence might appear to us (based on
appearances in our own sphere) to be "from nothing", and yet be - in the
larger reality - nothing (oh dear) of the kind. It may be the case that
science is incapable of supplying a sufficient answer to this simple
question.
JimA [Friend of ASA]

Dehler, Bernie wrote:
> I'm not sure if others ever talked about this, but I think I just came up with the ultimate question for science:
>
> Where did it all start? There are two options:
>
> 1. Matter and/or energy are eternal (no start; always existed).
> 2. The first matter and/or energy came from nothing.
>
> Both seem to violate scientific thinking. Comments? Are there any other options (I don't see any). Maybe another option will be the discovery of another "attribute" of nature from which energy can sprout. That may explain why Einstein's theory breaks-down at the planck level, and the new thing can explain the sub-atomic world. It's a game of "how low can you go." Maybe there's no end to how low or high you can go (the ultimate in height is multi-verses).
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dehler, Bernie
> Sent: Monday, March 09, 2009 9:28 AM
> To: ASA
> Subject: RE: [asa] Article (in our local paper) on evolution mentions Collins (something from nothing or eternal energy?)
>
> "Something came from nothing,"
>
> That sounds unscientific. I think they should say it is rather eternal- with multi-verses sprouting up. I think eternal energy is more likely than something coming from nothing. Wow- no answers there... both seem unscientific...
>
> ...Bernie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu [mailto:asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu] On Behalf Of Dave Wallace
> Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 7:07 AM
> To: ASA
> Subject: [asa] Article (in our local paper) on evolution mentions Collins
>
> Collins was quoted in a multi page article on evolution.
>
> http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Technology/debate/1364179/story.html
>
> "Francis Collins summed up the importance of this in a TV interview.
> (Collins was head of the Human Genome Project and was director of one of
> the U.S. National Institutes of Health. He is also a fundamentalist
> Christian who sees no conflict in this.) "Yes, evolution by descent from
> a common ancestor is clearly true. If there was any lingering doubt
> about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the
> strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things ..."
>
> "I take the view that God, in His wisdom, used evolution as His creative
> scheme. I don't see why that's such a bad idea. That's pretty amazingly
> creative on His part."
>
>
> Another good line:
>
> "We don't regard the Origin of Species as a holy book, or The Descent of
> Man. So what he said, we don't care about it."
>
>
> However, a second article goes on to undo any good done by the previous one.
>
> http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Life/Growing+Darwin/1363731/story.html
>
> "To be committed to science is to be committed to the idea that there is
> no original design or purpose in the universe. What pushed God from the
> picture once and for all is the realization that science is a
> progressive endeavor that can in principle never come to an end:
> Something came from nothing, the more complex came from the less
> complex, and the appearance of design or intent is just that -- appearance."
>
> It almost seems people such as the author have a secret wish to keep
> evolution from being accepted. Why do they always have to push their
> philosophical naturalism?
>
> Dave W
>
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Received on Mon Mar 9 19:28:47 2009

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