Re: [asa] Behe on "intervention"

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Wed Mar 04 2009 - 14:00:07 EST

There are two synonymous words that apply to the deity: omnipotent and
almighty, along with the phrase, all powerful. How does one specify the
means of available to such a being? What limits may be assigned? If one
rejects classic theology in favor of open theology or process theology,
one may devise an answer, but I hold that these limitations produce a
nonsense theory.
Dave (ASA)

On Wed, 4 Mar 2009 11:33:46 -0600 "Jon Tandy" <>
> I think the easy answer to your question is, "divine providence".
> Now the
> question is to define "divine providence", and how it works. We had
> a
> discussion on this recently, in response to some probing questions
> that I
> offered.
> I would add, consider this not just in the context of
> science/natural
> history, but also in the context of human history, human-social
> thought, and
> in our religious lives. How does God work -- with non-natural
> intervention,
> hidden intervention, or with an essentially non-interventionist
> "hidden
> hand" that has real influence on temporal events? I believe there
> is great
> value in considering providence from all these ways, not just from
> the
> limited view of scientific theory and the physical history of the
> universe,
> but I haven't had a chance to follow up on some recent thoughts
> along those
> lines.
> Romans 8:28 says that "all things work together for good to them
> that love
> God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." How does
> God do
> that in human-social interaction? In our spiritual relationship?
> In
> biology or physics?
> Prov 16:4 (NIV) says "The LORD works out everything for his own
> ends-- even
> the wicked for a day of disaster." How does the Lord work in
> everything,
> even in evil things done through the free agency of the wicked, to
> accomplish His own ends? And would we be able to prove through
> systematic
> analysis of human-social events where, exactly, did God's action
> start and
> stop? I think in most cases the answer would be no. For those who
> don't
> allow for divine intervention, the answer would always be no.
> When God caused Israel to prevail against their enemies, or when
> they were
> wicked for their enemies to prevail against them in battle, where
> was God's
> action? Did God openly intervene, or partially intervene, in ways
> that were
> outside an apparently natural course of events? I am willing to say
> that He
> did, but in many cases the "intervention" attributed to God through
> scripture and/or prophecy could be fully explained as a natural
> sequence of
> cause and effect events - wise or poor decisions on the part of a
> general,
> seemingly natural events such as a hailstorm that turn the course of
> the
> battle, etc. I am also willing to say that He intervened
> supernaturally
> (overtly) in biological history, but I understand the reasons for
> thinking
> it may have been otherwise.
> More thoughts, but that's all I have time for now.
> Jon Tandy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: []
> On
> Behalf Of Alexanian, Moorad
> Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:49 AM
> To: Ted Davis;
> Subject: RE: [asa] Behe on "intervention"
> I revert back to a question I asked some time ago, how do
> Christians, who
> are scientists or else talk about science, understand Hebrews 1: 3,
> "...
> upholds all things by the word of His power..." Is that "miraculous
> intervention" or "partial interference," or else "constant
> interference?"
> Moorad
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Received on Wed Mar 4 14:06:28 2009

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