RE: [asa] Nakedness and the Fall of Man

From: Dick Fischer <>
Date: Tue Mar 03 2009 - 14:18:30 EST

Hi Phil


It isn't one word. It's the entire context. He's missed the location
entirely. It's not Israel, it's Mesopotamia. Who doesn't know by now the
location of the Garden is near the Euphrates? The Bible writer tells us
that. And the first city there required irrigation to allow them to grow
crops, water their livestock, etc. The entirety of these verses is to tell
us that the desert area, where it does not rain, needed some help to make it
fertile and a canal was used to facilitate putting this area into use.


Aside from the Euphrates, there were no other "rivers" in Babylon
(Psa.137:1), only canals. Ezekiel was among the captives by the "river
Chebar" (Ezek. 1:3; 3:15, 23), corresponding to nar Kabari meaning the
"great canal," the largest of three or four navigable canals that watered
the fields of ancient Nippur. Since we are afforded a clear example in
Psalms and Ezekiel where "rivers" are canals, a scriptural basis exists to
use the same definition in Genesis. In other words, there was a place called
Eden, out of which a canal ran eastward to irrigate the garden, where God
placed Adam.


I'm not blaming Mark for getting it wrong, so has nearly everybody else.


Dick Fischer, GPA president

Genesis Proclaimed Association

"Finding Harmony in Bible, Science and History"


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [asa] Nakedness and the Fall of Man


I'm sure Mark used the words "rain clouds" as a paraphrase to convey the
specific interpretation to a modern reader, but obviously he agrees with
these translations:

> mist - KJV
> water - NLV
> water - Good News
> mist - ASV

since that is what a rain cloud actually is. Anyhow, I don't put much stock
in arguments based on the definitions of single words, since it is the
popular usage of words that determines their meaning, and the only usage of
ancient Hebrew that we have available to us is in the Bible itself. This
can lead to circular reasoning when we start talking about words that are
not commonly used or that may have had secondary usages that were not
predominant. The strength of Mark's argument is that it is based on the
logic of the passage and not upon the meaning of a single word.



-----Original Message-----
From: gordon brown <Gordon.Brown@Colorado.EDU>
Sent: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 11:42 pm
Subject: Re: FW: [asa] Nakedness and the Fall of Man

On Mon, 2 Mar 2009, Dick Fischer wrote:
> "Verses 6-7 provide the twofold solution: "So [God] caused rain clouds to
> rise up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground ."
> He's winging it. This doesn't follow any other translation.
> streams - NIV
> mist - KJV
> fountain - LXX
> water - NLV
> stream - RSV
> water - Good News
> mist - ASV
Obviously all the translators can do is guess at the meaning of this word.
One other clue would be its only other use in the Bible, which is in Job
36:27, where it has something to do with producing rain.
Gordon Brown (ASA member)



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Received on Tue Mar 3 14:19:31 2009

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