Re: [asa] science martyrs

From: John Walley <>
Date: Sun Mar 01 2009 - 19:26:36 EST

In Behe's "Edge" he goes to the trouble of differntiating his position from that of TE and in fact he says he used to be a TE but now he rejects that position. I am not sure what exactly he means by that if not special creation.

Ken Miller has a slide in his presentation that at least includes ID in general if not Behe specifically that reveals quotes that boil their postion down to special creation in their own words.

If Behe is not part of that then my apologies but I seem to recall he was and since he is an ex-TE I don't how he wasn't.



--- On Sun, 3/1/09, Ted Davis <> wrote:

> From: Ted Davis <>
> Subject: Re: [asa] science martyrs
> To:,,
> Date: Sunday, March 1, 2009, 7:06 PM
> John Walley wrote:
> > I have a contrarian opinion of Behe and Steinberg. I
> don't think the
> resistance against them is necessarily due to their faith
> but in using their
> credentials in science to push an agenda that is contrary
> to science.
> >
> > Case in point, Behe is a professor at a private
> Christian schools and his
> own department disavows him. In contrast, Francis Collins
> holds a prominent
> and prestigious government job and no one is calling for
> his resignation.
> The difference? Behe is a special creationist and Collins
> is a TE. One can
> be falsified by science but the other can't. One is in
> conflict with science
> and the other is complementary to it but not in conflict.
> >
> ***
> I don't agree with John that Behe is a "special
> creationist," in the usual
> sense of that term at least. ID as presented by some
> others--Steve Meyer,
> Phil Johnson, and Bill Dembski--is indeed a type of special
> creationism
> (NOTE: if someone in cyberspace quotes this, it will be
> dishonest not to
> quote the whole paragraph), highly similar to a type of OEC
> that was popular
> in America for at least 100 years. But not Behe's
> views. Unless you are
> prepared, John, to say that Francis Collins was also a
> special creationist a
> few years ago, when he was saying that as far as he was
> concerned, life
> might well have been originally created miraculously. I
> think that is a
> good possibility myself, yet b/c I think the evidence for
> common descent and
> human evolution is very strong, most people would not
> describe my position
> as a type of special creationism.
> I realize that semantics are involved here, and I don't
> want to push this
> too far. Nevertheless, I disagree with your analysis here.
> Ted
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Received on Sun Mar 1 19:27:05 2009

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